<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 14 September 2009 - Volume 04<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands@lowlands-l.net">lowlands@lowlands-l.net</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
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===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">tighe</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:tighe@sympatico.ca">tighe@sympatico.ca</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.09.14 (01) [EN-NDS]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><br>
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im">
From: <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a> <<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>><br>
</div><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite"><div class="im">
<div>Subject: LL-L
"Etymology" 2009.09.13 (04) [EN]</div>
<div> </div>
</div><div class="im"><div>Where does the other
Scots word for child " wain" ( not sure about spelling because I've
only ever heard it) come from?<br>
My son-in-law uses 'wain' all the time but 'bairn' never - as does
Billy <br>
</div>
</div></blockquote><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hi Fowk:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Could weans be childer that have been have weaned?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"Wean [West, Ulster rhymes with 'rain']" from Chambers</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Gerald Tighe</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Sandy Fleming</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.09.14 (01) [EN-NDS]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> From: </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.09.13 (04) [EN]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> from Heather Rendall </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Ron/Reinhard wrote: Would you agree with my hunch that Latvian bērn-</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> is a Scandinavian loan? I assume that Scots bairn 'child' is a</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Scandinavian loan, too.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Where does the other Scots word for child " wain" ( not sure about</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> spelling because I've only ever heard it) come from?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> My son-in-law uses 'wain' all the time but 'bairn' never - as does</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Billy Connelly.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Heather,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"Wean" (as it's usually spelled) is a conflation of "wee ane" (little</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
one).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Being from the east of Scotland, I use "bairn".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a><br><br>----------</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jonny</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span class="gI"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.09.14 (03) [EN]</span><br><br style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"></span><div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" id=":8o" class="ii gt">
<div>
<div><span>Dear
Reinhard,</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>you have
picked up "wraith" as a new changellenge and ask for fulfillment of your
wondering.</span></div>
<div><span>So you'll have to
suffer from my answer and (penny-worth) idea: what about Middle German
"wreken", G: "rächen", E: "to avenge" etc. - (luck would have it -
just today I came upon this word!!).</span></div>
<div><span>Couldn't be the LS
word "wracksch", meaning German: "böse, aggressiv", E: "angry, aggressive,
feisty", which I formerly had put into the sequence of French "rage", be a
cognate as well?</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Just an
idea...</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left">Allerbest!</div>
<div align="left"> </div><font color="#888888">
<div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div>
<div align="left">Lower Saxony,
Germany</div></font></div>
</div><br><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Sandy Fleming</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.09.14 (03) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Subject: Etymology</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Lowlanders,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> And the “wraith” story continues …</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> “Wraith”, now practically obsolete in English, is considered mostly</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> northern British, especially Scottish. (Is it still used in Scots?)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> Its primary meaning is “ghost” or “specter” of a dead person. It has</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> also been used to refer to ghost-like beings, including water-sprites,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> that haunt certain places or objects.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I never realised wraith was Scottish, but certainly I would use it.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
It seems to me to mean the sort of spirit that's fleeting and</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
insubstantial, that you might mistake wisps of fog or plumes blown from</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
waves in the sea for in the darkness.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Could it be connected to "wreath" in some way?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
By the way, sorry for some of the unfinished postings I think you must</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
be receiving from me, Ron: it's because this new laptop's touchpad is</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
far too sensitive and I haven't managed to find a setting that works for</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
me. It will get better with practice!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Etymology<br><br>Thanks, guys!<br><br>Heather and Gerald, like Sandy I've assumed that <i>wean </i>for "child" comes from </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wee ane</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> ("little one"). I guess it ought to be written *</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wee'n'</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> or something like it, in the case of Ulster dialects <i>w'ane</i>. The word is the equivalent of "littl'un" (< "little one") in southern dialects of American English (which also have "chillun"). (In Low Saxon of my area you can say </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Lütten</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> "little one(s)</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">" </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">for 'child(ren)', when it's still a fetus, then it's <i>wat L</i></span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ütts</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> "something little".)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Jonny and Sandy, I rather assume that </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wraith</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> is related to Low Saxon </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wreed</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (pronounced as though "vrayt" in English spelling). It means "angry", "angered", "perturbed", "cross" and so forth. In Middle Saxon it is </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wrêd</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, in Old Saxon </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wrêth</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. This is clearly related to "wroth" ~ "wrath" and I suspect also to Scots </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wraith</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> [re:θ].</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Low Saxon always "sides" with Scots against English when it comes to this vowel ~ diphthong; e.g. (een) eyn = ane [e:n] = one, (Steen) steyn = stane [ste:n] = stone, (Been) beyn = bane [be:n] = bone, (leeg') leyg' = laich [le:x] = low, (heel) heyl = hail [he:l] = whole, (Geest) geyst = ghaist = ghost.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Not a lot of words for "ghost" in the sense of "apparition", "phantom" or "specter" are known in the older Lowlands languages. However, Old English, the language with the largest written literature among them, has the following: </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">becola, becole, dwimor, fæcce, grīma, scinlāc, scinn, scinna</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. Outside the group, Old German has </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">egisgrīmolt, gisk</i><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">īn</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, and</span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> gitrog</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, and Old Norse has </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">draugr</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">flyka</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">skrīpi</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, and </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">skrimsl</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. I know! Frisians, Low Franks and Saxons were far too down to earth to even entertain such flights of fancy ... and the Brits got them from the Celts. ;-) Yeah, yeah, that's it!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Sandy, "wreath" < </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wriða ~ wriþa,</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> is related to "to writhe" < </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wriðan ~ wriþan</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">. So it's something wound.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">By the way, Sandy, I don't mind the hiccups. I assumed that some technical teething problems were involved (that or you suddenly took a senile turn). I can't stand mouse pads! When I get me a laptop (probably soon) I will still connect a mouse to it.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>... who's comin' down with somethin' awful ...</span> Keep your distance, folks!<br>
<br>
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