<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 06 November 2009- Volume 03<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
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===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: History<br><br>Hi Heather!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">You asked if the "Dutch" Elizabeth I supposedly spoke was what we today call "Dutch" or was German. It may be difficult to find that out because in her days the two plus Middle Saxon (all three being written languages as well) were lumped together as "Dutch." It did not help that Middle Dutch and Middle Saxon routinely or occasionally referred to themselves as </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">duytsch</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> and such. Here's a note from the </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Oxford English Dictionary</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">:</span><br>
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</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">In the 15th and 16th c.
‘Dutch’ was used in England in the general sense in which we now use ‘German’,
and in this sense it included the language and people of the Netherlands as
part of the ‘Low Dutch’ or Low German domain. After the United Provinces became
an independent state, using the ‘Nederduytsch’ or Low German of Holland as the
national language, the term ‘Dutch’ was gradually restricted in England to the
Netherlanders, as being the particular division of the ‘Dutch’ or Germans with
whom the English came in contact in the 17th c.; while in Holland itself <i>duitsch</i>,
and in Germany <i>deutsch</i>, are, in their ordinary use, restricted to the
language and dialects of Germany and of adjacent regions, exclusive of the
Netherlands and Friesland; though in a wider sense ‘deutsch’ includes these
also, and may even be used as widely as ‘Germanic’ or ‘Teutonic’. Thus the
English use of <i>Dutch</i> has diverged from the German and Netherlandish use
since 1600.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<span style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"></span><span style=""></span><p></p>
<br><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Let me add that the British at that time had contacts not only with the Netherlands (and also Flanders) but also with Middle Saxon speakers, especially with merchants of the Hanseatic Trading League that had offices in several British cities and also had the Steelyard and diplomatic representation in London. I have a feeling that Middle Dutch and Middle Saxon were perceived as more or less the same.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From "An agreement made betweene King Henrie the fourth and the common societie of the Marchants of the Hans"* referring to the Hanseatic Trading League:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">... and the marchants of
the common societie of the Dutch Hans aforesaide ...<br><br>... by the whole
companie of the common society of the marchants of the Dutch Hans ...<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">[* Henry IV (1367–1413)]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">By the way, although I quite believe that Elizabeth I was extraordinarily educated (and extraordinary in other regards as well) I would be surprised to hear that she was able to carry on real conversations in all of the languages mentioned. She could have known as little as a few polite phrases in some of them, just enough to walk from guest to guest saying a few greetings and asking them how they were doing. That alone would have seemed quite impressive, would have been fodder for the belief that the Queen was "fluent" in all those languages. It's still like that these days. Many people assume you "know" a language if you say a word or phrase in it, and next thing you know is they tell others that you are "fluent" in it.</span> In the case of Elizabeth I, genuine admiration and probably also plain sycophancy may well have fortified this assumption.<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
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