<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 17 November 2009 - Volume 03<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
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===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Jonny</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.11.15 (06) [EN]</span><br><br style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" id=":a9" class="ii gt">
<div>
<div><span>Thanks, dear
Lowlanners,</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>for all your
answers regarding "etgroa", "etgroede" etc..</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>And again it has
been proven: if one is searching for any special word in LS the first thing
to do is to take a look to the Westburen! Dank u wel!</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Thanks, Reinhard,
for that complete list of related words - fascinating!</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Marcus, special
thanks for your lead to the dtv-Atlas! I'll buy it tomorrow!</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left">Allerbest!</div>
<div align="left"> </div><font color="#888888">
<div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div>
<div align="left">Lower Saxony,
Germany</div></font></div>
</div><br><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Henno Brandsma</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.11.17 (02) [EN]<br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a> <span><<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.11.16 (03) [DE-EN]<br>
<br>from Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></div>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">re the discussion about Nachmahd / Nahmadd</p>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">In English we have 'Aftermath' with the same
meaning = ' a second cutting of grass' . However I doubt whether the
majority of English speakers know this original meaning; rather they
use it to descriobe the results of any action. e.g. " In the aftermath
of 7/11 security was tightened throughout the county."</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Â </div><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im">
<div><font size="2">My question is: why do you have ' Nach-' and not
'Efter- when both English and Lowland languages seem to have retained
the '-math' bit.</font></div>
</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Â </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">[One of the things I like about this forum is it
makes you look up word origins you have never thought about. I have
just looked up 'after' and discovered that it has as relatives O Fris
efter OS / OHG aftar Du achter Gothic aftra etc etc back to PIE.]</font></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Modern
Dutch achter, Old german "aftar", Modern W. Frisian "efter". But also
Modern Dutch "na", WF "nei", which is related to German "nach" </div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">and English "nigh".</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">So it's common Germanic.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Henno <br>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: R. F.
Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi, Lowlanders!</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Our Heather has an observation and a
request:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: navy;">In English we have 'Aftermath' with the same meaning = ' a second cutting
of grass' . However I doubt whether the majority of English speakers know this
original meaning; rather they use it to descriobe the results of any action.
e.g. " In the aftermath of 7/11 security was tightened throughout the
county."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: navy;">My question is: why do you have ' Nach-' and not 'Efter- when both English
and Lowland languages seem to have retained the '-math' bit.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">That’s a great one, Heather, one that I’ve
been thinking about ever since Luc brought up the connection.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">This <i>na-</i> and <i>nach-</i> thing is
related to English “nigh”. Of course you know English “nigh” as meaning “close
to”. It is also the root of “near” which actually started off as its
comparative derivation (thus *”nigher”, which technically makes modern “nearer”
a double comparative).</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">This is what the <i>Oxford English
Dictionary</i> says about “nigh”:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">[Cognate with Old Frisian <i>nēi</i>,
<i>n</i><i>ē</i><i><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Ron/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif" alt="{imac}" align="absbottom" border="0" height="15" width="4"></i> (West
Frisian <i>nei</i>), Middle Dutch <i>nā</i> (Dutch <i>na</i>), Old Saxon <i>nāh</i>,
<i>nā</i> (Middle Low German <i>nā</i>, <i>nae</i>, <i>nāch</i>), Old High
German <i>nāh</i>, <i>nā</i> (Middle High German <i>nāch</i>, <i>nā</i>, <i>nāhe</i>,
German (adjective) <i>nah</i>, <i>nahe</i>, (adverb and preposition) <i>nach</i>,
now only in sense ‘after, to, towards’), Old Icelandic <i>ná-</i> (only in
compounds, as <i>nábúi</i> neighbour, <i>nákominn</i> closely related, etc.),
Old Swedish <i>naa-</i> (Swedish †<i>nå-</i>), only in compounds, Danish <i>na-</i>
(only in <i>nabo</i> neighbour), Gothic <i>nehw</i>, <i>nehwa</i>; further
etymology uncertain and disputed: perhaps < the same Indo-European base as <span style="font-size: 10pt;">ENOUGH</span> <i>adj.</i>, or perhaps < an extended
form of the Indo-European base of Old Church Slavonic <i>na</i> on, at, Russian
<i>na</i> on, at, or perhaps a Germanic innovation.<a name="00324546n1"></a><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Old High German is the only example
among the older languages in which a fully developed adjectival use of the word
exists along with the adverbial. In Old English there are only a few traces of
an adjectival inflection, the word being more commonly employed either as a
simple adverb, with a dependent dative, or as the first element in compounds
(the latter use probably reinforced the development of the adjectival use): in
predicative use it may sometimes be taken as an adjective, but it is more
probable that in such cases also it is an adverb. It is not till the 14th or
15th cent. that the attributive use becomes common.<br>
The original comparative of Old English <i>nēah</i> as an adverb is
<i>nēar</i> (also <i>nēor</i>, <i>nŷr</i>) </span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">NEAR</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <i>adv.</i></span><font size="1"><sup><span>1</span></sup></font><span style="font-size: 10pt;">, while the adjectival form <i>n<img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Ron/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.gif" alt="{emac}" align="absbottom" border="0" height="14" width="7">arra</i> became
Middle English <i>nerr</i> </span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">NAR</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <i>adj.</i>; the Old English superlative <i>nīehst</i>,
<i>nīehsta</i> survives as </span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">NEXT</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <i>adj., adv., </i>and<i> n.</i> By the end of the
Middle English period phonetic changes meant that these forms were no longer
clearly perceived as related to the positive, and so new analogical comparative
and superlative forms arose (e.g. <i>nigher</i>, <i>nighest</i>), which have
been in common use ever since.<br>
With the rare early Middle English adverbial and prepositional
forms <i>nagen</i>, <i>negen</i> (both attested only in the Otho MS of Lagamon's
<i>Brut</i>) compare Old English <i>nēan</i> (adverb) from nearby, near, close
at hand; perhaps compare also the form <i>neggen</i> (one isolated attestation
in the Auchinleck MS of <i>Floris & Blauncheflur</i>), although this is
more likely to be a scribal error as the rhyme is with <i>heige</i>. With
Middle English forms with final <i>-t</i> perhaps compare the development of
excrescent <i>-t</i> in </span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">GRAFT</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <i>n.</i></span><font size="1"><sup><span>1</span></sup></font><span style="font-size: 10pt;">, </span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">TUFT</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <i>n.</i>, etc. (see further E. J. Dobson <i>Eng.</i><i>
Pronunc. 1500-1700</i> (ed. 2, 1968) II. §437).</span>]</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">This is what the <i>Oxford English
Dictionary</i> says:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Note that in older times “nigh” denoted
not only location but also approach, which is preserved in set phrases, such as
“the end is nigh”. It goes back to Indo-European *<i>(e)ne<u>k</u>-</i> ‘to
reach’, ‘to attain’. Approach is connoted in Old English <i>néah(w)ian</i> ‘to
approach’ and <i>néahl</i></span><i><span style="font-size: 11pt;">ǽ</span></i><i><span style="font-size: 11pt;">can</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> ‘to approach’, ‘to come close(r)’.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Older relatives have the same dual meaning
of “near” in location and approach, such as Old Saxon <i>n</i></span><i><span style="font-size: 11pt;">āhbūr</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> (“near dweller”, Old English <i>néagebúr</i>) and <i>nāhian</i> ‘to
approach’. Like Old English <i>æfter</i>, Old Saxon <i>aftar</i> (> <i>achter</i>),
denotes both location (“behind”) and approach from behind, but it is not
featured in many compound which Old English <i>æfter</i> is. The same goes for
other Germanic languages.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">So it is my hypothesis that on the
Continent <i>nah-</i> etc. began to predominate in the sense of “approaching
from behind” and “following” definitely <i>after</i> the 4th or 5th century
while in largely isolated Britain
<i>æfter</i>- took on this function. Old English has some compounds with <i>æfter</i>,
but they are not terribly strange to Continentals; e.g. <i>æfterfylgendlýc</i>
‘successive’, <i>æftergengar</i> ‘successor’, with the exception of <i>æfterspyrian</i>
‘to pursue’, ‘to inquire’ perhaps.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">When we look at English
constructions with <i>after-</i> we find that most of them were created
relatively late, in Middle English or thereafter; afternoon (1300), aftermath
(1523), afterwitted (1536), afterbirth (1587), after-life (1593), afterthought
(1661), afterpiece (1779), afterglow (1873). Meanwhile, in the Continental relatives
most of these came to be expressed by means of <i>na</i>- and its cognates.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">By the way, the shift <i>ft</i> >
<i>cht</i> as in <i>aftar</i> > <i>achter</i> is pretty regular in the Continental
Lowlands languages.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">[One of
the things I like about this forum is it makes you look up word origins
you have never thought about. I have just looked up 'after' and discovered that
it has as relatives O Fris efter OS / OHG aftar Du
achter Gothic aftra etc etc back to PIE.]</span></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I’m glad you said “one of ...”. ;-)<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Seattle</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">, USA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<br>
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