<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===========================================<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 01 December 2009 - Volume 05<br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">
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===========================================<br></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology"<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Beste Ron,</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div><br></div><div>You wrote:</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I wonder if early Dutch-speaking immigrants had their hands in this: <i>*betehuus</i> > <i>*bedehuis</i> (<i>gebedshuis</i>)?<br>
<br>Remember
that large numbers of medieval Dutch speakers, mostly in the garment
trade, moved to Wales and later from their to parts of England and
Scotland (hence surnames like Fleming, Walsh, Welsh etc.).<br>
<br>But wait! There's more!<br><br>Old Saxon actually has the word <i>bedehūs</i> ("prayer house")!<br><br>Old Low Frankish sources are scarcer, but I consider it possible that it had a cognate.<br><br>Now I'm starting to wonder if you are right in suspecting that the word was introduce to Wales from a Saxon source.<br>
<br>In Old English I would expect a cognate like *<i>bidda</i></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><i>hūs</i></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">, but there seems to no trace of that.</span></blockquote><br></div><div>
Bitte! ;=)</div><div><br></div><div>Note
also the name of first and foremost Anglo-Saxon scholar: The Venerable
Bede, one of the greatest (church) historians of all time probably.</div><div><br></div><div>His
name is cognate with "bede" (Dutch for prayer), and with English
"bead". Yep, the New Orleans stuff ;=)...originally used in something
more mundane like a Roman-Catholic rosary...with which you could count
your prayers.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind greetings,</div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium</div></font></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jonny</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span class="gI"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.12.01 (04) [EN]</span><br><br></span><div id=":6i" class="ii gt">
<div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>Dear
Lowlanners,</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>looking
for the origin of 'kirke' again.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>Ron
means:</span></div>
<div><span></span> <br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">OK, here are the words for
"church" in the Modern Insular Celtic languages and the most likely donor
languages:</span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>Greek: εκκλησία
(ekklēsía)<br>> Latin:
ecclesia</div>
<div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>Yes, of course, the
Celtic Christs still call it with a related term this way (and I
mentioned it in my first posting in this threat)! But these Irish missionaries
had to be diplomates, and they had to respect the germanic people's old customs
to be successful in their intentions to perform them into
Christs.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>So - maybe they
took up 'familiar' items denoting Germanic mythology, as we know it from other
rituals as Easter festival and Christmas.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>And isn't
"κυριακον" ('Haus des Herrn') </span><span> a perfect translation
of</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span> <br></span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span><em><strong>"Valaskjalf"</strong></em> (also called
'Walhalla' but that's wrong!)?</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>de.wiki writes: </span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span>>>Valaskjalf
ist in der nordischen Mythologie einer der <strong>Götter</strong>paläste in
Asgard. Das Dach >>der <strong>Halle</strong> ist mit Silber gedeckt. Laut
der Snorra-Edda steht hier auch ... der Thron
>>Odins.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left"> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left"><span>("In
nordic mythology the hall of the Germanic Gods, with a roof of silver and
the throne of Odin in its midst.")</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left"><span>10 cents worth??</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left">Allerbest!</div>
<div style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" align="left"> </div><font style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" color="#888888">
<div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div>
<div align="left">Lower Saxony,
Germany</div></font></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Etymology</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks, <i>makkers</i>. Very interesting!</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Jonny:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span>And isn't
"κυριακον" ('Haus des Herrn') </span><span> a perfect translation
of</span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span> <br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span><em><strong>"Valaskjalf"</strong></em> (also called
'Walhalla' but that's wrong!)?</span></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In what way is it a perfect translation?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Skjalf</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">, a cognate of "shelf'" ("platform", "terrace"?), apparently referred to a divine abode or temple. (There you are, Paul.) </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Vala-</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> is thought to refer to the god son Váli.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Am I missing something ... a lot?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
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