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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">===============================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 18 February 2010 - Volume 04<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>
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===============================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Diederik Masure</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2010.02.18 (03) [EN]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gi"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Ron wrote: </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 30pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Apparently there is not connection
between this and "same", </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">samen</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">, etc. (in the sense of
'together', 'equal', etc.)</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Regards,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Seattle, USA </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
RE: <br>
On what ground/source would you say they aren't related? At least according to
the online OED they are. I know they aren't always 100% correct in my
experience but I don't see a reason why they'd be wrong here. <br>
<br>
Oh and "some" > sommige "some" in Dutch gets a -t- in
most(?) Southern dialects, Antw. "soemmigte", just like
"mennigte" (many, Dutch 'menige'), ennigte/iënigte? ('some', Dutch
'enige'). These forms are really oldfashoned dialect now tho (at least in Antwerp and area, now
replaced by "soemmige" loaned from Dutch with the regular om > oem
adaptation). </span><br style="">
<br style="">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same" target="_blank"><b><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 32);">same</span></b></a> <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=same" target="_blank" title="Look up same at Dictionary.com"><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(128, 0, 32); text-decoration: none;"><span style=""><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Ron/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif" alt="Look up same at Dictionary.com" title="Look up same at Dictionary.com" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span></span></i></b></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;">perhaps abstracted from O.E. <i>swa same</i> "the
same as," but more likely from O.N. <i>same, samr</i> "same,"
both from P.Gmc. <i>*samon</i>(cf. O.S., O.H.G., Goth. <i>sama;</i> O.H.G. <i>samant,</i>
Ger. <i>samt</i> "together, with," Goth. <i>samana</i> "together,"
Du. <i>zamelen</i> "to collect," Ger.<i>zusammen</i> "together"),
from PIE <i>*samos</i> "same," from base <i>*sem-</i> "one,
together" (cf. Skt. <i>samah</i> "even, level, similar,
identical;" Avestan <i>hama</i> "similar, the same;" Gk. <i>hama</i>
"together with, at the same time," <i>homos</i> "one and the
same," <i>homios</i> "like, resembling," <i>homalos</i> "even;"
L. <i>similis</i> "like;" O.Ir. <i>samail</i> "likeness;"
O.C.S. <i>samu</i> "himself"). O.E. had lost the pure form of the
word; the modern word replaced synonymous <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ilk" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 32);">ilk</span></i></b></a> (q.v.). Colloq. phrase <i>same
here</i> as an exclamation of agreement is from 1895.<i>Same difference</i> curious
way to say "equal," is attested from 1945.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=some" target="_blank"><b><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 32);">some</span></b></a> <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=some" target="_blank" title="Look up some at Dictionary.com"><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(128, 0, 32); text-decoration: none;"><span style=""><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Ron/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif" alt="Look up some at Dictionary.com" title="Look up some at Dictionary.com" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span></span></i></b></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;">O.E. <i>sum</i> "some," from P.Gmc. <i>*sumas</i>
(cf. O.S., O.Fris., O.H.G. <i>sum</i>, O.N. <i>sumr</i>, Goth. <i>sums</i>),
from PIE base <i>*sem-</i> "one, as one" (cf. Skt. <i>samah</i> "even,
level, similar, identical;" Gk. <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hamo-" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 32);">hamo-</span></i></b></a>; see <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 32);">same</span></i></b></a>).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;">"The word has had greater currency in English
than in the other Teutonic languages, in some of which it is now restricted to
dialect use, or represented only by derivatives or compounds, as WFris. <i>sommige,
somlike</i>, Du. <i>sommige</i>(also <i>somtiids, sommijlen</i> 'sometimes'),
LG <i>sömige</i> (G. dial. <i>summige</i>)." [OED]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(221, 217, 202) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><span style="font-family: Georgia;">Meaning "remarkable" is attested from
1808, Amer.Eng. colloquial. A possessive form is attested from 1565, but always
was rare. Many combination forms (<i>somewhat</i>, <i>sometime</i>, <i>somewhere</i>)
were in M.E. but often written as two words till 17-19c.; <i>somehow</i> is
from 1664 (first attested in phrase <i>somehow or other</i>); <i>something</i> once
was very common as an adv. (cf. <i>something like</i>).<i>Somebody</i> in the
sense of "important person" dates from 1566. <i>Somewhen</i> is rare
and since 19c. used almost exclusively in combination with more common
compounds. <i>Get some</i> "have sexual intercourse" is attested 1899
in a quote attributed to Abe Lincoln from c.1840.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br>
<br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
I think you're right, Diederik.<br>
<br>
Although it is not very specific about it, the OED implies that there may be a basic relationship between the two.<br>
<br>
But there are very early divergent forms, which may or may not involve <i>ablaut</i>:<br>
<br>
Indo-European: *s<font size="1"><sup>e</sup></font>mo 'some' vs. *somo 'equal', 'level'<br>
Sanskrit: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";" lang="HI">सम</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">(sama) ‘any’, ‘every’ vs. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";" lang="HI">समा</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">(samā) 'equal', 'level', 'same'<br>
Greek:</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma;" lang="IT">ἁ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="IT">μο</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">-</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> (hamo-) ‘some-’ vs. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma;">ὁ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">μόσ (homós) 'same'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
<p>
<p>
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