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L O W L A N D S - L - 18 February 2010 - Volume 02<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: Joachim <<a href="mailto:soz-red@jpberlin.de" target="_blank">soz-red@jpberlin.de</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.02.18 (01) [EN-NDS]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">Dag Nidderland-Düüdsk prauters,</span></font></div>
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">Am 17.02.2010 um 17:08 scraif Jonny Meibohm:</span></font></div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 16px;"><div>
<span>In other words: the vocable 'somstiid' is from the German type of Middle Low Saxon and could have been different in NL.</span></div></span></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0px;">In de hollänske Deux-Aes-Bijbel ("Emder Bibel") van 1562 - sü den Link <a href="http://www.bijbelsdigitaal.nl/view.php?bible=deuxa1562" target="_blank">http://www.bijbelsdigitaal.nl/view.php?bible=deuxa1562</a>)</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">het
dat: "somtijts". Is alsau nich blaut norddüütsk orr nederlandsk,
sunnern beyds (of auk - as ~ziits - in owerländisk düütsk hewwe ik nu
nich naukekt). </span></font></div></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size: 16px;"><div align="left"> Perhaps we
shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water and keep the old
linguistic terms alive - 'somstiids' they may be useful.</div></span></blockquote><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">Dår
stimme ik heyl un ganss tou, man ås "sumtiits / somtiits" (sunder
tüsken-s). Un wen dat tiitlike genetiv-s stört, kan auk "sumtiiden,
somtiiden" scriiwen of seggen. (Wou dat nowwe lutt hadde, kan ik nig
seggen, dår de Toun-upnamen van miinen oustfreysken antkevaar nig up
MacOSX nig meer afspelbar siint …)</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">Ümme di, Jonny, dat beld aftorunnen, in Lübbens Mnd. HWB fint sik:</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div><b>sum, som:</b> irgend einer; <i>neutr.</i> irgend etwas; <i>Plur.</i> some, summe, einige, <i>oft unfl.</i> som, sum.</div></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;"><b>summeli</b><b>k</b> = sum.</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div><b>sum-tides, -tiden, -tît,</b> zuweilen.</div><div><b>sum-wile, -wilen, -wiles,</b> zuweilen.</div><div><br></div><div>In'n hüüdigen Standard-NL het et:</div>
<div><br></div><div><div><b>somtijds & somwijlen:</b> manchmal</div> <div><br></div></div></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hellinckx Luc scraif:</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-size: 17px;">Just look at the map here: <a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Aldietsterritorium.png" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Aldietsterritorium.png</a></div>
<div style="font-size: 17px;">And cut off the southern half of Belgium btw ;=).</div><div style="font-size: 17px;">A new Chile has been born with Hamburg as Nueva Santiago and Ron starring as Allende.</div><div style="font-size: 17px;">
Moreover,
Scotland will be like the Chilean claim in Antarctica and not
surprisingly, Chile has the best credit ratings in Latin America. Yes,
yes.</div></blockquote><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">… or Ron starring as New Bonifaz, this time with the mission to teach modern Saxon ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">Helge Tietz scraif:</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 17px;"><font style="font-size: 21px;"><font style="font-size: 26px;" size="5"><span style="font-size: 17px;">So
although the national border between the Netherlands and Northern
Germany is artificial to draw a border on the southern extends of Low
Franconian speach would be equally as artificial.</span></font></font></div></blockquote></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 18px;">Dank di Helge, dat du dat auk befestiges.</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div>Am 17.02.2010, 22:04 screif Marcus Buck:</div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">relevance
of the Germanic tribes for todays language landscape. But facts
suggest that I have to estimate them. The southern border of the Low
Saxon language in Hesse is very sharp and its almost identical to the
former border between Franks and Saxons. The language border between
Westfalia and the Rhineland too is clearly trackable in isogloss maps
and corresponds with the Franko-Saxon border. In the west cities like
Nijmegen and Utrecht are known to be Frankish in old times while the
Twente region is known to be Saxon in old times. And again there are
many isoglosses that run between them. I have absolutely no doubts that
"Franks vs Saxons" is relevant for todays dialects. Of course there are
many lingustic innovations that crossed the border. It's not like the
dialects on both sides of the former Franko-Saxon border are totally
different. </span></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Jau, dat
fiine ik gout, wat du dår ållens for linguistiske fiinheyden ruutfiins!
Ik hewwe je auk segt, dat et dår velle verscillenheden gift, in de
tungen un tallen. Ik wil auk wual inseynen, dat dår un dår - wou
verstrikt auk jümmers - unnersceyde van (ethniske) stämme van vor
duusent jåren no met rinspelt. Blaut: wat wåren de Sassen? Sau wiit ås
ik liäsen hewwe, was dat es en tiitwiilig (laut us grof seggen 500 jår)
en lause (un wessenlde) vereenigung van stämmen btw. eddeln, anförern
un striitmannen met den "sahs". Un met horses, dårümme de wappen van
"Niddersassen" un Westfålen.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">They
are quite similar due to common innovations. But a bifurcation is
present. Einheitsplural is the most prominent Saxon feature and the
isogloss for Einheitsplural runs along the bifurcation line, the
Eem-Veluwe-IJssel line. </span></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Un
wårvan kümp de plural (präsens) up -en of -en/-et/-en in't Lübiske,
deylen van Niddersassen, Sleswig-Holsteen, Mäkelnborg etc.? ållet
Franken? - Un de ünnersceyt "us"/"uns" un derliiken in Norddüütsklant
kümp auk no dårtou.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 15px;">The
isogloss for reduced past participle (Dutch 'ge-' vs Low Saxon 'e-' or
'-') runs along the Eem-Veluwe-IJssel. Umlaut in the word Frankish
hoovd vs Low Saxon heuvd does too. The isogloss for Frankish krijgt vs
Low Saxon kriggt runs along the Veluwe-IJssel line. And many other
isoglosses do.<br></span></span></blockquote><div><br></div>De
isoglossen siint in sum giigenden (ås in den Rhiinsken Fäcker) sau
tallriik un verworren, dat ik dår swårlik en bifurkatsi druut erseynen
kan. Wan du dat ållens sau gout kenst, dan maak dår maul en
strektall-kårte met de tou-orneng to "Sassesk" un "(Nidder-)frankesk"
'rtou. Man dan auk no 'ne kårte üäwer dat diiner meening nau "Sasseske"
gebeyden, met 'ne insichtige analyse van de luutlike distans un naigte.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><b>Miin
reden is je nig, dat et an den würkelk of vermeentliken snauts tüsken
meer Sassesk un meer Nidderfrankesk nin ünnersceyt gift, man dat de
nich grötter siin ås dey tüsken verscillene strektallen up "sassesken"
gebeyt.</b><br><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 16px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><br></span></span></font></div></div>
<span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 22px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div>
Met echt-westfœlsken »Goutgaun!«</div><div><span style="font-size: 14px;"><div style="margin: 0px;">joachim</div><div style="margin: 0px;">--</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Kreimer-de Fries</div><div style="margin: 0px;">
Osnabrügge => Berlin-Pankow</div></span></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>
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