<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">===============================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 19 February 2010 - Volume 01<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> -
<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Archive:
<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</a></span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Language Codes:
<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>
===============================================<br>
</div>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Henno Brandsma</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2010.02.18 (04) [EN] -->
technical<br>
<br>
</span>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Dear Ron, and other users interested</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Not to
reply to the points below, but to note that it seems that somehow (!?)
for the last 2 days', I see the messages in a good encoding, for the
first time in a long time. Even the Sanskrit. Great!!
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hope
it stays as good....</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Henno</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="border-collapse: separate; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br></span>
<div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From:<span> </span><span><span>Diederik
Masure</span></span><span><span> </span></span><span><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span></span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Subject:<span> </span><span>LL-L
"Etymology" 2010.02.18 (03) [EN]</span></span></div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Ron wrote:</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 59.76pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Apparently there is not connection
between this and "same",<span> </span><i>samen</i>, etc. (in the
sense of 'together', 'equal', etc.)<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle,
USA</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>RE:<span> </span><br>
On
what ground/source would you say they aren't related? At least
according to the online OED they are. I know they aren't always 100%
correct in my experience but I don't see a reason why they'd be wrong
here.<span> </span><br><br>Oh and "some" > sommige "some" in Dutch
gets a -t- in most(?) Southern dialects, Antw. "soemmigte", just like
"mennigte" (many, Dutch 'menige'), ennigte/iënigte? ('some', Dutch
'enige'). These forms are really oldfashoned dialect now tho (at least
in Antwerp and area, now replaced by "soemmige" loaned from Dutch with
the regular om > oem adaptation).<span> </span></span><br><br><span style="font-family: Georgia;"></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b>same</b></a><span> </span><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=same" title="Look up
same
at Dictionary.com" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; text-decoration: none;"><span><img alt="Look
up same at
Dictionary.com" title="Look up same at Dictionary.com" width="16" border="0" height="16"></span></span></i></b></a></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.9134in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;">perhaps
abstracted from
O.E.<span> </span><i>swa same</i><span> </span>"the same as," but more
likely from O.N.<span> </span><i>same, samr</i><span> </span>"same,"
both from P.Gmc.<i>*samon</i>(cf. O.S., O.H.G., Goth.<span> </span><i>sama;</i><span> </span>O.H.G.<span> </span><i>samant,</i><span> </span>Ger.<span> </span><i>samt</i><span> </span>"together,
with," Goth.<span> </span><i>samana</i><span> </span>"together," Du.<span> </span><i>zamelen</i><span> </span>"to
collect," Ger.<i>zusammen</i><span> </span>"together"), from PIE<span> </span><i>*samos</i><span> </span>"same,"
from base<span> </span><i>*sem-</i><span> </span>"one, together" (cf.
Skt.<span> </span><i>samah</i><span> </span>"even, level, similar,
identical;" Avestan<span> </span><i>hama</i><span> </span>"similar, the
same;" Gk.<span> </span><i>hama</i><span> </span>"together with, at the
same time,"<span> </span><i>homos</i><span> </span>"one and the same,"<i>homios</i><span> </span>"like,
resembling,"<span> </span><i>homalos</i><span> </span>"even;" L.<span> </span><i>similis</i><span> </span>"like;"
O.Ir.<span> </span><i>samail</i><span> </span>"likeness;" O.C.S.<span> </span><i>samu</i><span> </span>"himself").
O.E. had lost the pure form of the word; the modern word replaced
synonymous<span> </span><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ilk" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b><i>ilk</i></b></a><span> </span>(q.v.).
Colloq.
phrase<span> </span><i>same here</i><span> </span>as an exclamation of
agreement is from 1895.<i>Same difference</i><span> </span>curious way
to say "equal," is attested from 1945.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.9134in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.9134in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=some" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b>some</b></a><span> </span><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=some" title="Look up
some
at Dictionary.com" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; text-decoration: none;"><span><img alt="Look
up some at
Dictionary.com" title="Look up some at Dictionary.com" width="16" border="0" height="16"></span></span></i></b></a></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.9134in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;">O.E.<span> </span><i>sum</i><span> </span>"some,"
from P.Gmc.<span> </span><i>*sumas</i><span> </span>(cf. O.S., O.Fris.,
O.H.G.<span> </span><i>sum</i>, O.N.<span> </span><i>sumr</i>, Goth.<span> </span><i>sums</i>),
from PIE base<span> </span><i>*sem-</i><span> </span>"one, as one" (cf.
Skt.<span> </span><i>samah</i><span> </span>"even, level, similar,
identical;" Gk.<span> </span><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hamo-" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b><i>hamo-</i></b></a>;
see<span> </span><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank"><b><i>same</i></b></a>).</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.9134in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;">"The word has had
greater currency in English than in the other Teutonic languages, in
some of which it is now restricted to dialect use, or represented only
by derivatives or compounds, as WFris.<span> </span><i>sommige, somlike</i>,
Du.<span> </span><i>sommige</i>(also<span> </span><i>somtiids,
sommijlen</i><span> </span>'sometimes'), LG<span> </span><i>sömige</i><span> </span>(G.
dial.<span> </span><i>summige</i>)." [OED]</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.9134in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-repeat: repeat; background-color: rgb(221, 217, 202); color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-family: Georgia;">Meaning
"remarkable" is
attested from 1808, Amer.Eng. colloquial. A possessive form is attested
from 1565, but always was rare. Many combination forms (<i>somewhat</i>,<span> </span><i>sometime</i>,<span> </span><i>somewhere</i>)
were in M.E. but often written as two words till 17-19c.;<i>somehow</i><span> </span>is
from 1664 (first attested in phrase<span> </span><i>somehow or other</i>);<span> </span><i>something</i><span> </span>once
was very common as an adv. (cf.<span> </span><i>something like</i>).<i>Somebody</i><span> </span>in
the sense of "important person" dates from 1566.<span> </span><i>Somewhen</i><span> </span>is
rare and since 19c. used almost exclusively in combination with more
common compounds.<span> </span><i>Get some</i><span> </span>"have sexual
intercourse" is attested 1899 in a quote attributed to Abe Lincoln from
c.1840.</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">----------<br><br>From: R.
F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject:
Etymology<br><br>I think you're right, Diederik.<br><br>Although it is
not very specific about it, the OED implies that there may be a basic
relationship between the two.<br><br>But there are very early divergent
forms, which may or may not involve<span> </span><i>ablaut</i>:<br><br>Indo-European:
*s<font size="1"><sup>e</sup></font>mo 'some' vs. *somo 'equal',
'level'<br>Sanskrit:<span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS';" lang="HI">सम</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"><span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">(sama) ‘any’, ‘every’ vs.<span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS';" lang="HI">समा</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="HI"><span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">(samā) 'equal', 'level',
'same'<br>Greek:</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma;" lang="IT">ἁ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="IT">μο</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">-</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"><span> </span>(hamo-)
‘some-’ vs.<span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma;">ὁ</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">μόσ (homós) 'same'</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 40px; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;">Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle,
USA</span></div></div></span><span class="gI"><br>
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="border-collapse: separate; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" style="text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Technica<br>
<br>
Thanks, Henno.<br>
<br>
I noticed at my end, too, that the encoding did not need to be adjusted
upon receipt.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, I still don't know what has been going on and what
provoked the change. I just followed my own routine of copying and
pasting, but I didn't want to say anything and possibly "jinx" it.<br>
<br>
Just watch this or the following issue arriving all weird again ...<br>
<br>
Hoping for the best,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA<br>
</span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br>
<p>
<p>
==============================END===================================
<p>
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.
<p>
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
<p>
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
<p>
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
<p>
are to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at
<p>
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
<p>
*********************************************************************