<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">===============================================<br><b>L O W L A N D S - L - 15 March 2010 - Volume 01</b><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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===============================================<br></font></div><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">M.-L. Lessing</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.14 (04) [EN]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></font><div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2">Hello Ron,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2">in "a number of ... is" there
is just a
gap between grammar and facts. People feel the plural, although grammar
demands
singular, and they put the verb in plural, as is natural. Grammar may
blame
itself for this. "A great number of people is ready to do this." Now who
is
ready, the number or the people? -- We have a similar problem in German
with
numbers. "1 Million Menschen ging zur Wahl." Now who went, the million
or the
people? Numbers do not vote, people do. It is natural that many say
"...gingen...". A paradox is that anything but an exact million is
plural
already: "0,5 Millionen Menschen gingen zur Demo." No Problem here --
the half
million is pural, while the full million is not :-) Same applies to
billions
etc. Is it the same in English?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2">Hartlich</font></div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,serif;"><font size="2">Marlou</font></div><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Brooks, Mark</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mark.brooks@twc.state.tx.us">mark.brooks@twc.state.tx.us</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.14 (04) [EN]<br><br></span></font><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><font size="2"></font><style>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">Ron wrote: “<span>I expect “is” to be the default
in Scots, since “is” is often used with plural forms.”</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span> </span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span>Something
that you mentioned has brought to mind a point I’ve been noticing lately. I
think the dialect spoken in the southern USA has even heavier Scots
influences that I previously thought. So, much of what I see here on the list
in and about Scots seems so familiar to me. So, yes, I believe I’d say “there
is a number of books on the shelf about Goethe” first. Of course, “there are”
doesn’t sound wrong to me, I just think I’d say “there’s” or “there is” before
I’d say “there are.”</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span> </span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span>I
realize that what I said probably doesn’t surprise you, but </span><span><br>
</span>it has surprised me. I knew my
grandparents’ speech bore a lot of Appalachian (Scots in the New World I
suppose) characterics (both sets of my grandparents came from Tennessee), but I didn’t realize how much.</font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">Mark Brooks </font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span> </span></font></p>
<font size="2"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">jmtait</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jmtait@wirhoose.co.uk">jmtait@wirhoose.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.14 (04) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ron - re: your examples as follows:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></font>
<blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite"><div class="im"><font size="2">(01) There <b>are</b>
<u>several</u> <b>books</b> on the shelf.<br>
(02) *There <b>is</b> <u>a <b>few</b></u> books on the shelf.
(substandard)<br>
(03) There <b>are</b> <u>a few</u> <b>books</b> on the shelf.<br>
(04) *There <b>is</b> <u>a <b>number</b> of</u> books on the shelf.<br>
(05) There <b>are</b> <u>a number of</u> <b>books</b> on the shelf.<br>
(06) There <b>is</b> <u>a <b>bunch</b> of</u> books on the shelf.<br>
(07) *There <b>are</b> <u>a bunch of</u> <b>books</b> on the shelf.<br><br></font></div><div class="im"><font size="2">
(08) There <b>is</b> <u>a great <b>number</b> of</u> books on the shelf.<br>
(09) (*)There <b>are</b> <u>a great number of</u> <b>books</b> on the
shelf. (?)<br>
(10) There <b>is</b> <u>a small <b>number</b> of</u> books on the shelf.<br>
(11) (*)There <b>are</b> <u>a small number of</u> <b>books</b> on the
shelf. (?)</font></div></blockquote><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
I'm afraid that my client downloaded your post with many control codes,
so I haven't deciphered what you're actually asking. I can point out,
however, that in the traditional Shetland dialects, all of these phrases
would be introduced by a common 'dae'r...' which is the same
irrespective of number, and therefore there would be no issue! </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
What I used to call 'Shetlandic' - in the sense of a common perception
of the Shetland dialects - can now be definitively said not to exist. </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In actual speech in Shetland, you get both the traditional 'dae'r' form
and the English 'der's' form. Some speakers use one, some the other, and
some may possibly use the 'der's' form for singular and the 'dae'r'
form for plural, as if it were a contracted English plural form. You
might also get the singular form used in plural contexts - 'der's twa
fock missin' - as commonly in colloquial forms of English.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
With regard to 'dialect' - as promoted by proponents in Shetland - it
can be said to have no grammar, in the sense that those who write it
typically have no, and certainly no common, perception of anything other
than standard English and variation from standard English. 'Dae', as in
the form 'dae'r' is not recognised as the separate word it certainly
is, as it does not exist in standard English; and 'dae'r' is typically
conflated in writing with English 'there' and 'they.' Written forms thus
reflect the spoken 'continuum' (as it is expressed by Scots language
pundits) between traditional spoken Shetland, standard English, and
colloquial English, which however tends to be conformed more closely to
standard English grammar for writing purposes in the absence of any
perception of the traditional Shetland pattern.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
John M. Tait.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</font><font size="2"><span><br>From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><span></span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><span>Subject:
Grammar</span></font></p><font size="2"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks, everyone.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Jim, here are the examples without "adornments":</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(asterisks marking ungrammatical
constructions)
...<br>
<br>
(01) There are several books on the shelf.<br>
(02) *There is a few books on the shelf.
(substandard)<br>
(03) There are a few books on the shelf.<br>
(04) *There is a number of books on the shelf.<br>
(05) There are a number of books on the shelf.<br>
(06) There is a bunch of books on the shelf.<br>
(07) *There are a bunch of books on the shelf.<br><br>
But I believe--and please correct me if I’m wrong--that “number” <i>can</i>
determine plural if it is modified; e.g. ...<br><br>
(08) There is a great number of books on the shelf.<br>
(09) (*)There are a great number of books on the
shelf.
(?)<br>
(10) There is a small number of books on the shelf.<br>
(11) (*)There are a small number of books on the
shelf.
(?)
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
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