<div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">===============================================<br><b>L O W L A N D S - L - 18 March 2010 - Volume 04</b><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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===============================================<br></font></div><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.17 (09) [EN]<br><br></span></font><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im">
<font size="2">From: <span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Jonny</span> <span><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span><br></font>
<blockquote type="cite"><font size="2">Subject: <span>LL-L
"Grammar" 2010.03.16 (05) [EN]<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<div>
<div>
<div><font size="2"><span>Beste Marcus,</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><span></span> </font></div>
<div><font size="2"><span>you wrote:</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><span></span> </font></div>
<div><font size="2"><span><font style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" color="#008080"><strong>Until a few
moments ago I was convinced that "schap/schop/schup" is Saxon and
"schaft" is a German loan. I wanted to add that some Low Saxon dialects
have completely incorporated the loan "schaft" and don't even know
"schap/schop/schup" anymore.<br>
<br>
But then I looked into my etymological dictionary (to look up whether
"schap, "schop" or "schup" is the original form [it's "schap"]) and
discovered that "schaft" is actually _both_ Low Saxon _and_ German and
no loan. "schaft" is derived from "schap" + "ti" suffix and "schapti"
developed into "schaft" cause the sound pattern "pt" is phonotactically
avoided (this is independant of the High German sound shift "p" to "f"
as in "schâp" -> "schâf"). Old English had "sceaft" (besides
unsuffixed "scipe" which developed into modern "ship"). </strong></font><br style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">
<br style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">
<font style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" color="#008080"><strong>So "börgerschaft" is not necessarily a
loan.</strong></font> <br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><span>Interesting, and sounds conclusive! Have
you just read it as an theory or found it written or even heard spoken?
I've never come across this form, neither in old (Middle Age) documents
nor in modern, till spoken Low Saxon languages. Maybe it's very
archaic!?</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2"><span></span> <br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><span>The old forms are mentioned in my
etymological
dictionary but without any direct sources. The given example is
"hugiskaft" which is from the Heliand and means "Gemüt", "Sinn" ("hugi"
being the source of our modern "Höög", "högen"). The modern form is in
widespread use. If you search <a href="http://wikisource.org/" target="_blank"><http://wikisource.org/></a> for forms
like "Weertschaft", "Wirtschaft", "Landwirtschaft", you'll find
examples (e.g. Fritz Reuter, Johann Hinrich Fehrs, Fritz Stavenhagen,
Wilhelm Henze). I don't know how much of these modern forms is loan and
how much is patrimonial.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</span></font><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></font><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">From: Hannelore Hinz <a href="mailto:HanneHinz@t-online.de" target="_blank">HanneHinz@t-online.de</a></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.17 (09)
[EN]</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Hallo alltohopen,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">ick help giern bäten nah....</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Der Bürger, die Bürgerschaft,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">de Börger, de Börgerschaft,
Börgerschop</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Wortbildung Substantiv:
(Substantiv +
Substantiv) Das grammatische Geschlecht des Grundwortes legt das
Geschlecht des
ganzen zusammengesetzten Substantivs fest (z.B. die
Haus<em>tür).</em></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><em></em> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><em>Börgerbreif m., -buk n., -gehursam,
-geld,
-kawel f.</em></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Börgerbreif m., -buk n., -gehursam,
-geld, -kawel
f. , -klock f. (Glocke, die im Mittelalter in den Städten den Feierabend
im
Wirtshaus gebot), -schuss m., -sprake f. (Bürgersprache, öffentliche
Verlesung
der Bürgerpflichten und städtischen Vorschriften im Mittelalter), -stig
m., -tit
f., -utschott m.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">In "Verfatung von dat Land
Mäkelborg-Vörpommern"
heit "Wissenschaft" : Wätenschop.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">also analog Börgerschop. </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Ja, mi dücht, 'schop'
(Mittelalter).</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Noch wat: <strong>schaffen</strong>:
schöpferisch gestaltend;</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>... schaft: </strong>In der
Ableitungssilbe mhd. -schaft, ahd. -scaf[t] sind zwei ehemals
selbständige
Substantive zusammengeflossen, die in den germ. Sprachen schon früh in
Zusammensetzungen auftreten und wie* Suffixe gebraucht werden.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Aus der Bed. "Zustand, Beschaffenheit,
Verhalten"
in abstrakten Substantiven wie ahd. friuntscaf, botascaft "Freund-,
Botschaft" entwickelte sich in Wörtern wie 'Bruder-, Ritter-,
Gemeinschaft' bald
ein kollektiver Sinn, der auch räumlich gefaßt wurde ('Land-,
Grafschaft'). Erst
nhd. sind Ableitungen von Verbformen wie 'Bekannt-, Gefangen-,
Leidenschaft'.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>Schaft: </strong>Das altgerm.
Sustantiv mhd. schaft ahd. scaft .... bezeichnete ursprünglich den
Speerschaft, auch den Speer als Ganzes.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">* mien Mein: kein echt' Suffix</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Lit.: DUDEN 7 Herkunftswörterbuch,
Wossidlo/Teuchert </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">In Fründschop [ auch Fründschaft, a.
Spr. -schop: 'wy ... scolen in ener ganzen eninghe</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">unde vruntscop myd en ... sitten' (Ro
1366)
] </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Hanne<br></font></div><div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><br>==================================================<br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
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