<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:宋体;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
span.gi
{mso-style-name:gi;}
span.gd
{mso-style-name:gd;}
span.go
{mso-style-name:go;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-family: Arial;">===============================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 20 March 2010 - Volume 04<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Archive:
<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>
===============================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">jmtait</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jmtait@wirhoose.co.uk">jmtait@wirhoose.co.uk</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.03.18 (14)
[EN]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Sandy</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"> wrote:
<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial;">>It's an unpopular
opinion that I've expressed on the list before that<br>
languages don't so often die from oppression as from the fact that their<br>
speakers decide they'd rather speak something else.<br>
<br>
>Or they'd rather their children speak something else.<br>
<br>
>What can an individual do? It depends on what they like to do. I like to<br>
avoid politics but I wouldn't underestimate the importance of making a<br>
body of literature available at a time like this. In the end it can mean<br>
the difference between a remembered (and perhaps revivable) language,<br>
and a forgotten language.</span></i><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
<br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">I think - with Ron's proviso
that what people want to do also has causes - that that is right. <br>
<br>
Some would say that a considerable body of literature is being produced. It is,
however, 'dialect' literature. An example. A few years ago I was having a
conversation with two of the most prominent dialect promoters. One was
explaining how they had been producing a story book that featured teeth. She
said 'Of course, the Shaetlan/dialect (I forget which word she used) for
'tooth' is 'teeth'.' And she then went on to explain how they had gone through
the script and re-written it so that teeth were referred to only in the plural,
so that there would be no conflict between the Shetland singular 'teeth' and
English 'tooth'. And yet, she had assumed that I would immediately recognise
that the natural word in the singular is 'teeth'.<br>
<br>
I also mentioned that, in the traditional Shetland dialects (note circumlocution!)
the word 'lock' means 'shut' - as in Icelandic, I think - and for English
'lock' the word 'key' is used as a verb. I was assured that these usages were
now dead, and would not be included in dialect children's books.<br>
<br>
Both these promoters were about four years older than I am. But my sister, who
is about eight years younger than I am and who lives in Mainland Scotland, has
the meaning of 'lock' as 'shut' so ingrained that she often uses it when
speaking English, which confuses her children because they have to ask what she
really means.<br>
<br>
There is also a considerable body of existing poetry - the collected works of
Vagaland are about the same size as the collected works of T S Eliot. But there
is no conception of using his work as an example of (for example!) grammar.
This is one reason why I rarely bother writing any more. If I use a traditional
form which is not familiar to a particular reader (such as the infinitive use
of 'can') it is likely to be seen as 'Burra' (the island I come from) and altered
by anyone who reads it out to children.<br>
<br>
Some time ago I wrote a children's poem which began:<br>
<br>
Dae wir ten peerie mudjicks<br>
apo da claes line.<br>
Mam hang da washin up<br>
an dan dae wir nine.<br>
<br>
etc. However, as such poems are usually delivered orally to children and
readers apparently alter them according to their own dialect, and as features
that I would be trying to promote are apparently regarded as either dead or in
unacceptable conflict with proper English grammar, I could easily imagine this
being read as:<br>
<br>
Dere wir (or wis) ten peerie midgies<br>
on da claes line<br>
Mam hung da washin up<br>
an dan dere wir (/wis) nine.<br>
<br>
Paranoia? Possibly.<br>
<br>
Ron wrote:<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Language varieties</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial;">>As I understand it,
one of the purposes of the European Languages Charter is to remove or at least
lessen such pressures to start with, at least as far as administration and
formal education are concerned. Another purpose is to signal that it is all
right to hold on to one’s non-power language.</span></i><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Well, yes. But in the Shetland case, first of all, all these factors are
rendered irrelevant by regarding it as a 'dialect' to which language issues do
not apply. Secondly, it is regarded as a dialect of Scots (by ShetlandForWirds,
that is. Traditionally it was regarded as a dialect of English, and a fair
proportion of the very few who discuss it on Shetlink still insist that it is
an evolution of Norn.) And in Scotland,
there is no evidence that I can see that measures for Scots will have any more
effect, because the most prominent promoters of Scots are derisive of the
measures that are normally regarded as the minimum steps for the revitalisation
of a language. <br>
<br>
In the Inuit and related cases, we are again talking about languages, which are
excluded from the equation by definition.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial;">> And did not also
Welsh make a comeback? What caused that?</span></i><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">What
some people would describe as terrorism. Sabotaging radio masts, lying down on
busy roads, hunger strikes, things like that. Even in a country where there was
a substantial literature and a long history of literacy in the language, that
was what it took. Also, when the campaigners started their lawbreaking
campaigns, many of the older people - even the Welsh speaking magistrates who
tried them, because they refused to speak English in court - were sympathetic,
and public support grew. But I doubt that much would have happened without the
lawbreaking campaigns.<br>
<br>
However, the Welsh revival is far from secure. I watched a TV program which
showed that, although actual statistics of Welsh speakers are rising, in the
heartlands they are falling. Hardly any area outside of the far North now has
more than 70% speakers. Some of this is owing to English-speaking incomers. But
even more alarming than the percentages is the fact that those who can speak
Welsh often don't. One interviewee, the daughter of an English speaking
incomer, had been educated in Welsh and was completely bilingual (she explained
that speaking Welsh at school had been second nature) but said that now -
although she was completely fluent and would be equally happy to speak Welsh -
her Welsh speaking friends always spoke to her in English. They are able to
speak Welsh, but they do not prioritise it. There appears to be a pattern that,
even in Welsh-medium education, the pupils do not use the language outside of
school.<br>
<br>
This can't be the case in the North, to judge by how many young people I heard
speaking Welsh when I was there last summer. But it is an alarming trend, and
may be increasing.<br>
<br>
And even on BBC Wales, the producers found it necessary to wheel out a
professor of sociology who explained that the only way to make Welsh survive
would be to make it compulsory in certain areas and expel anyone who didn't
learn to speak it. They didn't mention that this professor is not Welsh
speaking and is well known for his view that Welsh is a waste of time and
resources.<br>
<br>
The programme and info about the Prof are here, but on BBC iplayer and so
probably only available in the UK
for a short time.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rl5hk/Week_In_Week_Out_A_broken_heart/" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ken_heart/</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://syniadau--buildinganindependentw/" target="_blank">http://syniadau--buildinganindependentw</a>
... -this.html <br>
<br>
In Shetland, however, you don't need to blow anything up - just writing
'Shetlandic' is enough to make you a political activist!<br>
<br>
John M Tait. <br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-family: Arial;">===================================================<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>.</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in
your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br>
<a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</a>.</span><br>
===================================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>