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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-family: Arial;">===============================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 20 March 2010 - Volume 05<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>
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===============================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mark
Dreyer</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.03.20 (02)
[EN]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Dear John:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Subject: LL-L
"Names"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">On the use of 'Shaetlan': I
hear you. &concedingyour eruditionI sadly agree. For my part I like
Shaetlanfor the People <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">&</span></strong>
the Tongue, & I would leave it to the context & the conversants to
differentiate. On the matter of 'dialect';Afrikaans is no poorer for having an
alternative term, 'Die Taal' = (The Tongue). An added point is that the latter
is not a captured & converted pejoritive of the enemy, but aword out of the
native speech, given (with the support of the definite article) an added
specific meaning. Can you not do the same out of the heart of Shaetlan speech?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">But all this is beside the
point: How to prevent that hostility from severely negative impact on the
language. It is <strong><span style="font-family: Arial;">not</span></strong> an
Englishdialect because to the RP English-speaker it is not intelligible.I mightargue
the point with some 'dialects' though,of Scots. Maybe you(plural) should just
forget about the name, dammit, & get on with it!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">I trust there is no need to
push the use of Shaetlan informally. It seems people are quite happy to
communicate therewith 'in shirtsleeves' so to speak. The only burden now is to
make place for it asa language of public address, plain & proud. With both
feet planted firmly in the assembly-hall & the homedo not doubt the
language will develop its mythology & literature.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Incidentally, I see hope in
the use of an un-specific orthography for all the dialects of Shaetlan. One can
do that in English, withits historic & idiosyncretic spelling system,
serving as it already does a host of other dialects throught the British Isles,
& without the need for more than a minimum of concessions, for example toScouse
on the one hand & Somerset on the other.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">By the way, should you be
talking to us at all? In English? Let's hear you in Shaetlan - to Shaetlanders.
By all means keep us in the loop - in LL-L, in Shaetlan.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Aanhou wen, Sheltie!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Mark</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">P.S. You might take a page
from At De Lange's book &; a) Write everything in Shaetlan (we will all
muddle through, I assure you). & b) Jolly well get aggressive with your own
people about your own language.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="gd"><span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mark
Dreyer</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.03.20 (03)
[AF]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Beste At</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Onderwerp: LL-L "Language varieties" [A]<br>
<br>
u Skryf:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">"Afrikaanse bydraes deur myself, Mark Dreyer, Elsie Zinsser en ander
lok uiters selde reaksie van Laaglanders wat ander Laaglandse “dialekte” as
moedertaal het. Ek dink dit is omdat Afrikaans as Laaglandse taal so
minderwaardig geag word dat dit geïgnoreer kan word."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Ter wille van die groep wil ek nie met u saamstem nie. Die probleem is, en
ons kan darem daarmee spog, nê, LL-L is so flippin' groot 'n geselskap! Dis nie
net in taalverband nie, maar in ledegetalle ook. Ek wil Ron eendag uitlok om in
sy 'Administrtivia' 'n volledige lidmaatskaplys uiteensit. Dit sal onder die
lange briewe wees. Hoe dit ookal sy, ons kan nie verwag dat die groep as geheel
meer as die gemiddelde mate van aandag aan ons Taal bestee as ons dit nie self
doen nie. As ons 'n vraag stel wat prikkel, sal hulle wel optree, hetsy in
Nederlands, Duits, Flaams, Plats of selfs Afrikaans.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Onthou ons Ron is vlot in die taal, nie die enigste nie, en dit sonder eers
'n titseltjie verskoning, soos burgerskap, landgenootskap of volksverwantskap.
Andere kan in hulle eie dialekte heen en weer met ons in hulle eie dialekte
gesprek voer, want ons voordeel met Afrikaans deel hulle ook tot 'n mindere
mate.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Ja, ek moet ook vermeld, maar dalk dra u al klaar kennis daarvan: Ons
Afrikaansgee 'n eienaardige voordeel wat betref die gesproke vorms van
betreklik alle Laelandse tale, en ek sluit Skots hier in, let wel, John Tait,
onse Sheltie! Deur weé van Die Taal verstaan ons so maklik so veel van die
ander.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Ek bekommer my oor Shaetlan.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Groete,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Mark</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Subject: Language varieties<br>
<br>
Dankie, beste Mark.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">'n Volledige lidmaatskaplys kan ek ongelukkig nie publiseer
nie, omdat ons “stille” lidmate die reg het om anoniem te bly. Ek kan net sê
dat ons op die oomblik amper 500 lidmate het, en onder hulle verteenwoordig die
“sprekers” slegs 'n klein persentasie.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Maar dit beteken
nie dat ons geen anonieme opname oor taalvaardigheid kon hou nie. Wie van ons
sal dit vrywillig doen? En hoeveel sal deelneem?<br>
<br>
Groete,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
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