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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">===============================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 26 April 2010 - Volume 03<br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
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===============================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Jonny</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="FR"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2010.04.25 (01)
[DE-EN-NDS-NL]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="FR"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Marcus,</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">(let's continue in
E, because of "the look over the fence" ;-))</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">you wrote to </span><em style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"><b>"rütentütig":</b></em></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: teal;">Villicht sett sik
de Utdruck tohoop ut "rütten" (Grundverb von Wöör so as
"zerrütten" un "rütteln"), "en" (westliche Form
von "un") un "tütt" as 3. </span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: teal;" lang="DE">Person Singular von
"tehn". "Jemand, der an etwas rüttelt und zieht" ->
"jemand, der sich ungebührlich benimmt" -> "Kasper,
Hampelmann".</span><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: "Courier New";" lang="DE">Perhaps
originally a marionette? Could fit! Just a rhyming reduplication, like
'hurly-burly', 'Techtelmechtel', 'Kuddelmuddel' and Kevins 'rootin'-tootin'?!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: teal;" lang="NL">Wat villicht beter passt: In dat Antwerpsch Idioticon
steiht de Indrag "rut" in, wat en "flauwe kul" is, also
"Unsinn". "Tut" is op nedderlandsch en minnachtig Woord för
en Fro. "Ruttentut" kannst denn villicht plattdüütsch mit
"Tüdeltrien" weddergeven. De Etymologie von "rut" un
"tut" kenn ik aver nich.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">This also sounds
interesting!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: teal;">Du kannst ja maal
be beiden Quellen nömen un ziteern, villicht lett sik denn ehrder wat seggen.</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">One is my own
daughter (who didn't grow up in my family but has good contacts to LS ['Stader
Geest' und Cuxhaven-Fischhallen]), the other one a middle-aged lady from Hamburg, the third one an older ex-neighbour who also had
been living in Hamburg.
My sources mostly are real people ;-)!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">The same holds true
for <em><b><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">"atschewiner"</span></b></em>
- this time the same lady fom Hamburg
and her new 'Lebensgefährte' (mate), a neighbour of mine and native LS-speaker.
They both mentioned <em><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">'atschewiner' </span></em>when
I asked them for the verification of <em><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">'rütentütig'</span></em>,
but they had completely different but Hamburgish sources.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">Perhaps I should point
out that my native neighbour didn't know <em><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">'rütentütig'</span></em>
at all.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">Allerbest un'
bedankt!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">Jonny Meibohm</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">Lower Saxony, Germany</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2010.04.25 (03) [EN]</span></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span class="gi"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); text-decoration: none;">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Subject:
Etymology</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><br>
Congratulations, Kevin! I think you did it.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Of course
I was familiar with “rootin’-tootin’”, but I didn’t make the connection.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">I wonder
if this goes back to the late 19th century with its fascination with the
"Wild West" in Germany
and large-scale emigration to the USA
from Northern Germany.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Do
you suggest a loan from or to English? "fascination with the Wild
West" is an argument for a loan from English to Dutch/Low Saxon,
"large-scale emigration to the USA
from Northern Germany" is an argument for
a loan from Low Saxon to English.<br>
<br>
A loan from English seems unlikely to me because it's hard to believe that an
English loan appears in both Dutch and German Low Saxon dialects (with
different literary languages) but nowhere in the literature of the two standard
languages. That could happen to a nautical term, but rather not to a "Wild
West" term.<br>
<br>
A loan to English is possible. But I had a look at the earliest records of the
word. Low Saxon "Rütentüt" (judging from texts available on Google
Books) is first attested 1897 in a text of Ilse Frapan from Hamburg. The first Dutch records are
"rutentuut" in the 1902 issue of "Driemaandelijksche
bladen", p. 51, and "ruttentut" in the "Idioticon van het
antwerpsch dialect" of 1903, p. 1052. The Dutch and Low Saxon words are
both scarcely attested. It's likely that they are much older than 1897 and 1902.
The first English record is in "A glossary of the Lancashire
dialect", 14, p. 228, from 1875. Lancashire,
England. So
it's not a New World word and it's very
unlikely that this is a loan from Dutch or Low Saxon.<br>
<br>
I admit, the words look invitingly close, but I don't really see a base for a
loan in either direction.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Subject:
Etymology</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Thanks for the details, Marcus.<br>
<br>
I consider either way a possibility.<br>
<br>
The Hamburg connection ought to remind us of a period of fairly strong
connections with America, first via freight shipping and then via intensive
passenger traffic from Hamburg to North America, especially in the 19th and
early 20th centuries. There are Hamburg’s
sailors’ sea shanties, some of them with chunks of English in them, and there it a lot of seafaring jargon that made its way
into Hamburg Low Saxon and Missingsch (e.g., <i>Törn</i> ‘short trip’). <br>
<br>
As for Dutch connections, they were long-lasting and sometimes intensive.
Hamburg Low Saxon in particular borrowed (and further developed) Dutch words
such <i>suutje</i> ‘gently’, <i>Bontje</i> ‘candy’, and <i>Buttje</i> ‘little
boy’. <br>
<br>
In theory, at least, the “rootin’-tootin’” expression could have been passed along
from Dutch to Low Saxon after coming from America, or the other way, for all I
know.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
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