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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 02 June 2010 - Volume 03</b><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="DE">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="DE">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">victorie.a</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:victorie.a@home.nl">victorie.a@home.nl</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.06.02 (01) [EN-NDS]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">Moi Hanne, Luc.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">Ik heb, ie hebt, hij, zij, et,dat, hef.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">dat heb ik,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">waor heb ie,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">waor hebt zij</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">Wie hef? Now, hij hef! <span style=""> </span>Wat hef hij dan? <span style=""> </span>Hij hef kopzeerte….!</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">Drèens hebben wordt uut-espreuken as hebb’m</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL">Groeten uut ’t Oogeveine.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;">Arend</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
Grammar</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Marcus
wrote:</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Both forms
are legitimate Low Saxon, just as Ron said. But looking at the map we can
clearly see, that "wi hebbt" is used in the territories that were
historically settled by the Saxons and that "wi hebben" is an
innovation used in those areas that were once Slavic (Mecklenburg, Pomerania,
Prussia, Brandenburg), Baltic (Prussia), Frisian (Eastern Frisia, Groningen),
Danish (Schleswig) or Frankish (Northern Hesse) and only later saxonized.
That's quite astounding, cause virtually _all_ colonial dialects have this
feature in common, although virtually _none_ of the original Saxon dialects
have it.<br>
<br>
These plural forms are interesting in another respect. Saxon Low Saxon has the
scheme "wi hebbt, ji hebbt, se hebbt" for "we have, you have,
they have". All three forms are the same. Colonial Low Saxon has "wi
hebben, ji hebben, se hebben". Again all three forms are the same. That's
in clear contrast to the Frankish dialects (including standard Dutch and
standard German) which have the scheme "wir haben, ihr habt, sie
haben" with two different forms. (Although in Dutch this is obscured by
the changes that followed the introduction of polite forms 'jij' and 'jullie'
replacing 'du' and 'jij' [comparable to 'you' replacing 'thou' in English].)
The isogloss between dialects using only one form for the plural and dialects
using two forms is called the 'Einheitsplurallinie' and this isogloss almost
perfectly matches the language border between Dutch and German on the one side
and Low Saxon on the other side.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I wonder
if present-tense plural <i>-en</i> in the colonial dialects is due to influences of immigrants from the Dutch-
and/or German-speaking areas to the Baltic Sea
coast (which began in earnest in the 12th century).<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Seattle, USA</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
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