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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 30 June 2010 - Volume 01</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Andrys Onsman</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:Andrys.Onsman@monash.edu">Andrys.Onsman@monash.edu</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language proficiency" 2010.06.29 (01) [EN]</span></p><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">From Andrys Onsman (Melbourne/Ljouwert)<br>
Subject: Language
proficiency.<br><span class="gi"></span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Dear All <br>
<br>
Thoroughly enjoying this conversation because I am giving a conference paper
(in Prato in September) titled ‘Capturing nuance in the translation of cognate
language literature’, which is so close to Ron's comment that I feel I have to
say that they asked me to talk about this a long time ago :-).<br>
<br>
As well as congratulating another new grandparent, Heather's suggestion about
the manner in which a language is learnt has sent me scurrying off in another
direction - something I tend to do probably because I am not a "real"
translator either, just someone who finds it fascinating and gives it a go
sometimes. Heather, I was going to say a penny well spent, but then I
remembered that spending a penny means something very different. Nonetheless,
it was a thought provoking contribution.<br>
<br>
I had forgotten LLL's discussion about false friends; thanks for reminding me,
Ron. So many wonderful examples from such a highly reputable and proudly cited
source. <br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Andrys<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">from Heather
Rendall <span style=""> </span><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</span></a></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Fascinating
string, this one but not ever having attained the giddy heights of interpreter
/ translator I wonder whether this pennyworth contributes much.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I can detect
a clear difference in my own skills of translation of single words / idioms; if
they were learnt at school/college, I can usually match them pretty
immediately. However if they were acquired during a stay in the country in
question, then I am usually stumped and have to think up a context or a quote and
even then sometimes the appropriate word/s do not come to mind.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I understand
this to be reflective of how the new language was learnt; if by lists of
vocabulary i.e. in school / college - translation is instantaneous ( usually) :
if by life and living in the country in contact with speakers then it is not so
immediate and can fail to produce a single adequate translation.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Perhaps the
connections between languages within the brain perform differently when learn
differently.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">And can I tag
onto this; at least half of these Language Proficiency mails have appeared
blank on my screen. I was getting so fed up missing what was going on, that I
decided to forward a blank screen to Ron as proof. Imagine my surprise when I
found the missing mail in the forwarded screen!!! I have had to read most of
the recent documents by pretending to Forward them! Does anyone else suffer in
this way?</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">best wishes</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">from a very
busy grandmother who is helping out with two new grand-daughters born within 3
weeks of each other hence my recent silence. There are days when I don't even
get round to switching the computer on! let alone dealing with mails.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Heather</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">(Worcester UK)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">From: Tomás Ó Cárthaigh <<a href="mailto:tomasocarthaigh@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">tomasocarthaigh@yahoo.com</span></a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.28 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">The lost obvios false freinds in the Slavic languages is <span style=""> </span>the Adore / Love problem in Polish and
Russian, they mean the opposite in each others languages!!!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-weight: normal;">"a person with a good book is never
alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace"</span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="FR">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="FR"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="FR">From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <</span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;" lang="FR">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</span></a></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="FR">></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="FR">Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency"
2010.06.28 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="FR"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Vlad, re the experience of translation. I have on my wall above my
PC <span style=""> </span>a lithograph by Jeanne Verdoux,
called “Duet for two pens” !!!!!!!!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Jacqueline BdJ</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">----------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">From: M.-L. Lessing <<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">marless@gmx.de</span></a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.28 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">One "false friend" recently caused some bad blood between
football fans of England and
Germany
before the match of sunday. The Kaiser (i.e. Franz Beckenbauer) had said in an
interview that this pairing would have made a good quarterfinal, semifinal or
final, but "<em><span style="font-family: Arial;">dummerweise</span></em>
haben die Engländer ja nicht ihre Gruppe gewonnen, sodass wir schon im
Achtelfinale gegen sie spielen." Some English media translated <em><span style="font-family: Arial;">dummerweise </span></em>as <em><span style="font-family: Arial;">stupidly</span></em> (not <em><span style="font-family: Arial;">unfortunately</span></em>, as would have been correct) and fumed at
Beckenbauer's arrogance :-) It seems they save the money for even the simplest
intelligent translator. <em><span style="font-family: Arial;">That is</span></em>
stupid. Unless, of course, they invest it in football expertise :-))))</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Marlou/Hamburg</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;">----- Original Message -----</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><br>
There are of course tons and tons of such false friends among the Lowlands languages alone, not only words but also
idiomatic phrases. This was one of the aspects I had in mind when I proposed that
translating between closely related language varieties comes with its own set
of problems.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
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