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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><b>L O W L A N D S - L - 08 July
2010 - Volume 03</b><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="PT-BR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="PT-BR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"History" 2010.07.08 (02) [DE-EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">From: Jonny <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</span></a>>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "History" 2010.07.07 (06) [EN]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Beste Marcus,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">answering to my previous posting</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">>> ...still living at "Bederkesa", which in Low
Saxon has become damaged to "Beers".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">you wrote:</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">> I'd prefer the wording "has evolved into" instead
of "has become damaged to". Being able to transport the same
amount </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">> of information in one syllable instead of four
syllables seems to be a sign of superior language efficiency to me.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);" lang="DE">("Fabelhafter
Kerl!", sagte einst der österreichische Kaiser Franz-Joseph über einen
besonders schneidigen preußischen General. "Fa-bel-haft, der
Mann! Kann <em>'Euer kaiserliche
Majestät'</em> in einer Silbe aussprechen!")</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Same amount of information? I'm sorry, I'm completely
unable to pick out <u>any</u> sense from this deformed word <strong><i>'Beers'</i></strong>(spoken similar to
['black] <strong>bears</strong>'). The
true origin probably is <strong>"Bederiks-a",</strong>
which, translated, means <em>'(Knight)
Bederiks water'</em> (Schiller-Lübben, first page, "a").</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Even a very capable etymologist, using all his
knowledge and phantasy, would hardly find out this connection. It's a kind
of dialectical encryption, a slang word in its purest sense, which doesn't
become automatically better just because it is used by some poorly
educated Low Saxon 'Nuschel-Brüdern' ('mumble-brothers').</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">And if you just mean the exclusive information </span><em style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">'a location, near Bremerhaven'</em><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;"> - who on earth is
able to find out this when he is living, let me say, more than 50 kilometres
away from that village? Not very useful, don't you think?</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Yes, I mean the bare 'a
location, near Bremerhaven'.
That's what both Low Saxon 'Beers' and German 'Bederkesa' mean. You are right,
that the German word (which is just the former Low Saxon word conserved in an
earlier state) is closer to the etymological origin. But to a person with no
knowledge about the science of "etymology" (that's about 99% of the
population) both forms are completely incomprehensible. So no information value
in that. A different example where your argument would be correct is 'Holschen'
and 'Hanschen' vs. 'Holzschuh' and 'Handschuh' ('clog' and 'glove' in English).
'The Low Saxon words (the contraction of former 'Holtschoh' and 'Handschoh'
into 'Holschen' and 'Hanschen' is a unique feature of Low Saxon that is present
in all Low Saxon dialects [according to my records from at least Groningen til
the Vistula and from Waldeck til Schleswig]) have to be learned as separate
words, while the German words are transparent compositions of known words.<br>
<br>
You are right, that nobody 50 km away knows the word. But that's not the fault
of the word 'Beers'. It's the fault of the fact that 'Beers' is Low Saxon. If
Klaus Groth and his 19th century friends had formed a movement to make Low
Saxon a full literary language and had won enough motion to make Low Saxon the
sole and official language of Northern Germany, then nobody (except some
historians who study the 16th to 19th century phase where it was fancy in Low
Saxon lands to write German) would know the word 'Bederkesa' and everybody
would use 'Beers'.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Let me give another example why "worn" forms like "Beers"
are just normal words. It's just normal language development. You may know
another language, that has heavily worn forms. How do you pronounce "</span>London<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"? Do you
speak two "o"s? Or is it rather "Landen" (I use
German-based spelling)? How do you pronounce "situation"? It's
"sittjuäyschen". "Language" is pronounced
"längwidsch"! "Worcestershire" is "Wustersche"!
"</span>Plymouth<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"
is "Plimmes"! And again German is a role model in pronunciation!
Germans speak "</span>London<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"
with two "o"s! So, Jonny, would your critique also apply to English?
Or French? "</span>Bordeaux<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"
is pronounced "Boordo", "eau" is just "o". In
both English and French the written form represents the pronuciation of the
words from a time past. Are these damaged and deformed languages?</span><br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">Who allows people to abuse Low Saxon so heftyly?
Aren't there anylonger any rules at all? Is it fancy, trendy? What are we
doing here? Are we trying to save any local family-slang or a great language,
with all its norms and principles that make up a 'universal' language?</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Why do you speak about
abuse? It's just the normal development of the word. The 'd' lacks cause 'd'
between vowels was lost. Your dialect of Low Saxon has "Lü" instead
of "Lüde" too, hasn't it? The 'a' lacks cause unstressed vowels in
the last syllable were reduced to schwa and then subject to apocope (just as -
again - 'Lü' vs. 'Lüde'). That would lead to 'Beerks'. I don't know about the
'k', but there'll be some reason too.<br>
<br>
I really have to say that you irritate me with your positions about Low Saxon
language use. I am unable to understand your position. In your Low Saxon posts
you put much emphasis on writing it exactly like it is pronounced in your own
dialect and in the past you have criticized the compromise Sass Platt (which I
write most of the time). That's a position I don't share, but it's a valid
position. But every now and then you seem to take a totally different position
and tell us that the "worn" pronunciation of the dialects is like
totally bad and you rant about "poorly educated mumble-brothers".
That seems contradictory to me. Perhaps you can shed some lights on the to me
invisible bridge between these two positions?<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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