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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><b>L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2010 - Volume 01</b><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jonny</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gi">LL-L
"History" 2010.07.08 (03) [EN]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Marcus,</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">thanks for your
voluminous answer!</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">First of all: did
you miss the little joke at the beginning of my posting and the smiley at the
end, right after my name? So this could have shown you that I'm acting more as
an imp than as an <em>annoying devil(s)</em>
;-) advocate. I'm trying to give the whole matter an easy touch with a hard
core, and so I shall continue.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Second of all: let
me tell you that one of my most important dialogue partner of Low Saxon, my
dear and very next neighbour Amandus Ahlf (you might google for him, Marcus!)
claims to avoid the use of Low Saxon names for locations which are situated outside
of an undestinated home district, even in a pure Low Saxon talk. It's just good
to cause confusion amongst the speakers.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">And now <span style=""> </span>- you wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: teal;">> 'Holschen'
and 'Hanschen' vs. 'Holzschuh' and 'Handschuh' ('clog' and 'glove' in English)</span><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">I'm not sure that I
would type it this way. I think I'd prefer "Holtschen" and
"Handschen", or perhaps "Hann'schen".</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: teal;">> It's the
fault of the fact that 'Beers' is Low Saxon.</span><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Are you sure that it
really <u>is</u> Low Saxon? Where is the proof?</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Just a couple of
sentences above you wrote:</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> You are
right, that the German word (which is just the former Low Saxon word conserved
in an earlier state) is closer to</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> the
etymological origin.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">So I repeat: what
about my guess that "Beers" is just a result of local dialect, perhaps
closer to Standard German than to LS?! I don't mind if it is just 50 or even
100, 200 or 300 years old! I'm pretty sure that a lot of 'Beersters' (to make
things even weirder: suddenly appears a "t"!) use it this way though
they are completely unable to speak Platt.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> </span><span style="color: teal;">You may know another language, that has
heavily worn forms. How do you pronounce "London"? Do you speak two
"o"s? > Or is it rather "Landen" (I use German-based
spelling)? How do you pronounce "situation"? It's
"sittjuäyschen". "Language" > is pronounced
"längwidsch"! "Worcestershire" is "Wustersche"!
"Plymouth"
is "Plimmes"!...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: teal;">> So, Jonny,
would your critique also apply to English? Or French?</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Asking me this way I
would answer: yes! And I feel myself being in good companionship with a lot of
native speakers of the mentioned languages ;-). <em>Man - ick gloyv ne' recht, watt ick daor watt an maoken kunn'.
Dey hoyrt mii jao ne' tou ;-)!</em> (I don't think that I would be able
do change anything there. <em>pun:</em>
They don't listen to me / they don't belong to me.)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: teal;">> Why do you
speak about abuse? It's just the normal development of the word. The 'd' lacks
cause 'd' between vowels was > lost. Your dialect of Low Saxon has
"Lü" instead of "Lüde" too, hasn't it? The 'a' lacks cause
unstressed vowels in the last > syllable were reduced to schwa and then
subject to apocope (just as - again - 'Lü' vs. 'Lüde'). That would lead to
'Beerks'. > I don't know about the 'k', but there'll be some reason too.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">A kind of vowel
shifting XXL?</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">I would prefer to
write <em>Lüüd</em> or perhaps <em>Lüü'</em>, but generally I don't like
it very much to write 'opp Platt' - as easy and comfortable as it is to speak
for me, as hard it is to pen.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> I really
have to say that you irritate me with your positions about Low Saxon language
use. I am unable to understand your</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> position. In
your Low Saxon posts you put much emphasis on writing it exactly like it is
pronounced in your own dialect and</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> in the past
you have criticized the compromise Sass Platt (which I write most of the time).
That's a position I don't share,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">> but it's a
valid position. But every now and then you seem to take a totally different
position and tell us that the "worn"</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: teal;">>
pronunciation of the dialects is like totally bad and you rant about
"poorly educated mumble-brothers". That seems</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: teal;">>
contradictory to me. Perhaps you can shed some lights on the to me invisible
bridge between these two positions?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Let me bring the
light! "Zwei Seelen wohnen, ach! in meiner Brust!" (Goethe, 'Faust')</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">The first one is my
closeness, my strong emotional relationship to our local dialect of LS. I'm
trying to help to conserve its <u>sound</u> for futural generations. So I
aspire to write it as close to the archetypical pronunciation as I am able to
do.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">The second soul is
eager to help other people, the readers here and elsewhere, to understand an
old <em>'mumble-brother'</em>
like me, and therefore I have to make compromises. My model in many aspects is
Reinhards kind of typing. It's he who taught me how and where to set e.g. apostrophes
to illustrate missing letters.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Sometimes I think I
could things make go much easier using Sass Platt, as you prefer, Marcus, but
I'm really unable to do so. All my trials end in a desastrous bad Low Saxon,
because I have to <em>'write with my
inner ear'</em>. But even in my very special kind of typing - which in
greater parts is another loan from Reinhard - I mostly don't like my works.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">What is the problem
for Dr. Faust with his just two souls? <em>Al'ns
Kinnerkraom</em> (kids' stuff) ;-)! <em><b>Me </b></em>is the pitiful one with a really big problem
- there is a <strong>third</strong>
soul within my chest, the etymological-puristical one. And this one always
cries: "Stop the downfall of a language!". I feel a kind of
responsibility for those poor old words which can't defend themselves against
bad, but spreading books, dictionaries and Google-results. I've told about this
previously: the standard languages have a huge lobby keeping an eye on them,
but vanishing minority languages can be spoiled like devil, and no one, or just
an irrelevant handful of freaks, even will realise it.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">In the sum all of
this of course may cause in many people the convincement towards me that I am a
notorious but inconsistent naysayer.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">To reach my momentary
level of development it has demanded a long way to go for me. For example,
Reinhard still might remember my hefty resistant against the usage of
characters from the archaical Hanse-type, and now I seem to be the last to
prefer it ;-)! I had to learn laboriously to open my eyes and ears for
etymological relations and have spent a lot of hours to learn some basic rules.
And I don't see an end of learning and improving my convincements.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Let's go on struggling
to save Low Saxon and all its dialects, thus let fight us against all those
toxic halfhearted and just trendy trials (though they might be well-intended) to
change, and therefore to spoil our heritage! They are really dangerous, because
they are up to tear down Low Saxon to a 100% dialect of standard languages.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Invent new words
where a new word is demanded, but use original words wherever you can. In this
aspect I very much agree with our Joachim Kreimer-de Vries: a loan from Middle
Low German often is better than a <em>'breitgeklopftes'</em>
('flat hammered') word from Standard German.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Crazy people, we
...!</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Allerbest!</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Jonny Meibohm</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">Lower Saxony, Germany</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
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