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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><b>L O W L A N D S - L - 14 July 2010 - Volume 03</b><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
- <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>
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Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a><br>
=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span> <<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be" target="_blank">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL-L Resources</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">A poem by Rohaert was
translated in 20 European languages before.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">This summer the newspaper
"Het Belang van Limburg" will publish 44 translations in variants of
Belgisch Limburgish.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I scanned the first 13
versions already published, preceeded by 2 introductory notes.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/lidia.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/lidia.pdf</a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">2+13=15 pp, about 3.4 Mb.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I think translating poetry
is very difficult.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Some issues are discussed in
the comment on page 2:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">- problem of the lack of
dialect wortds for abstract concepts, even also for ordinary things as
"strand" far away from the little Limburgish municipalities</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">- the lack of a consistent
orthography.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Easy to place in the West
versus East is the pronoun for the 2d person singular:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">ge, dzje, zje.... in the
West (Brabantish contamination; mixed in the South with dzj, an East walloon
consonnant)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">de, du, dich..... in the
East (the original form)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Enjoy,<br>
I will continue collecting during this summer.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Roger</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span> <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com" target="_blank">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL-L "Language
varieties"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Roger,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You wrote:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">One more difference between Belgian Dutch and Dutch from the Netherlands.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The "van...tot..."
(from...till...) issue.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I f you have to pay for
parking from Monday till Saturday,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">is the Saturday included or
not?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">In Belgian Dutch apparently
Yes</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">In Northern Dutch apparently
No.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Then again, it seems I'm
inclined to follow the Dutch in this respect. What would be the use of having
an expression like "tot en met" if it would semantically be
equivalent to "tot"? </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Sure, in spoken Dutch, few
native speakers would have doubts about the meaning of a sentence like:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">"Ik ga vanaf nu tot (in) de winter elke dag naar het journaal
kijken" ==> "de winter" = included</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">"Ik ga vanaf nu tot volgend jaar elke dag naar het journaal
kijken" ==> "volgend jaar" = not included</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Personally I find this
fairly obvious (I'm not saying it's logical)...mainly because in spoken Dutch,
one rarely uses "tot en met". I've never heard anybody say:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">"Ik ga vanaf nu tot en met de winter elke dag naar het journaal
kijken"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">But in written
(administrative) Dutch, one should avoid to be ambiguous at all costs. That's
precisely the reason, why "tot en met", in opposition to merely
"tot", has its use. So yes, for me the Dutch are right...we do have
to comfort them a little after the cup finals, isn't it ;=)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">In Western Flemish, one can hear "Ik moet dat tot volgende week af
hebben"...which then means "Ik moet dat tegen volgende week af
hebben".</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Kind greetings,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Luc Hellinckx,
Halle, Belgium</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=========================================================<br>
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