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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 26 July 2010 - Volume 03<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: windowtext;" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a>
- <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color: windowtext;" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Sandy Fleming</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Vexillology" 2010.07.25 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">> From: Henry Pijffers
<<a href="mailto:henry.pijffers@gmail.com">henry.pijffers@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.24 (04) [EN]<br>
><br>
> Sandy
skreev:<br>
><br>
> To my mind traditional heraldry is just propaganda for the illiterate.<br>
><br>
> Never forget that these "illiterate" are the masses, and that's
what<br>
> you will ultimately have to work with, if you want to give them a<br>
> flag. Us "better informed" can discuss and propose all we want,
but if<br>
> the masses don't take it, that flag won't fly.<br>
<br>
But you couldn't go wrong. A lion would say strength &c, a cross would<br>
say God's on our side, anything good like that. Nice colours, whatever!<br>
<br>
Allegiance is really just imprinting, the way goslings imprint on an<br>
animal psychologist for a mother. Give people something they can look at<br>
and they'll find it very hard to change allegiance.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 96);">Mark Dreyer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.25 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Henry:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b> LL-L "Vexillology"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'Ksien ons is meteens hier, maar verder in Engels.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Henry:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I do see however why some
people feel a need for 1 flag for all. So how about this: we take the age old
Saxon symbol of the white horse upon the red field, but for everybody who wants
to be different (like the East Frisians), they add a little something to it.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Mark:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">There is Heraldic precedent
for it, & I think it's called a 'difference'. For flags that could mean
'quartering' a charge. The quarter uppermost nearest the pole is called the
'Jack' (as in the Union Jack) & reflects subordinate divisions. In the case
of my suggestion I would have the White Horse on a green field with,
differenced for Lubeck
or perhaps the whole of the historic Hansa, a golden astrolabe. Blazoned: Vert
a Charger Argent in quarter Vert an Astrolabe or.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">As for the colour of the
field, Henry, out of loyalty to my wife's people I would forswear red. It is
historically the livery of Edom,
a race inimical to God's People & avaricious for power (heraldry is an
ancient craft). & do you need red? Out of another loyalty down my own
bloodline I moot Orange,
which as far as <strong>we</strong> are
concerned is a tincture, not a taint. Only then in the interests of clarity
perhaps the astrolabe should also be silver; not a bad idea, considerining how
much silver navigation brought to the League. So how about this? Orange overall
a Charger in quarter an astrolabe both Argent. Now I am getting <strong>warm</strong>. Why did I get involved with
this?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Henry, I won't take sides in
who 'shot first' excepting to expect that the Christians did, & our lot
were heathens at the time. I will only add that I am relieved that I do not
have to be. St. Boniface (was it?) did a good thing chopping down the dread
oak. & I personally know it is not a quiet business, or quick, to chop down
a big tree. They must have connived.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
Sandy skreev:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">To my mind
traditional heraldry is just propaganda for the illiterate.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Mark:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">True; &
another option is to dump the whole thing, but one cannot compel everyone else to
join one in this. Henry is right. With or without flags the divergant loyalties
of the masses will flourish. Flags & heraldry at least allow us to see
which way the wind is blowing, so to speak. Play along, always bearing in mind
that you are, & that is all you are doing.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Groete,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Mark</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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