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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 02 August 2010 - Volume 03</b><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mike Wintzer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:k9mw@yahoo.com">k9mw@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.01 (05)
[DE-NDS]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hi Marlou, Ron, hi all,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">First a question: Aren't we
excluding Lowlanders</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">from this fascinating
discussion by holding it in</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">German?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I enjoyed reading your very
balanced, neutral, high-</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">level assessment of the situation,
Marlou, and your</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">answer Ron. I might
propose a very simple solution</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">to most of these problems,
domination, contamination</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">(Ron, you know me, I like it
simple, simplistic, I confess):</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Generalised bi-linguism
(eventually world-wide).</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The local, home languages
for daily life, the world</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">language when it comes to
outside communications.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The home language would be
protected without</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">hampering world-wide
communication.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Utopic, yes, but
nevertheless worth aiming for?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Kumpelmenten, Mike Wintzer</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">From: M.-L. Lessing <<a href="http://us.mc570.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=marless@gmx.de" target="_blank"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">marless@gmx.de</span></a>></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);" lang="DE"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.07.31
(02) [NDS] </span></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(51, 51, 153);" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: times new roman,serif;" lang="DE">Liebe Leute, ich würde gern über diesen Vorstoß
"Deutsch ins </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
Language politics<br>
<br>
You are quite right to say that this thread is important enough to have at
least some English content. For this reason, I’m posting below a rough translation
of my own retort, though it is not as informative as is Marcus’s, not to mention
Marlou’s original discussion.<br>
<br>
The whole thing is about Norbert Lammert, a German Christian Democrats politician,
pushing for constitutionally specifying German as the national language, in
addition to it being the administrative language on a national basis already.<br>
<br>
Marlou brought up the “defensive” aspect of constitutionally specifying a
language, namely to defend it from possible encroachment (if I understand her correctly).
In this context she brought up current Anglicization of German that in some
quarters has become extreme. I cannot summarize Marcus’s response to that,
because it is quite extensive and also quite erudite.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Thanks,
Marlou. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Defining
a language in the constitution for defensive reasons tends to mean that you want
to protect it from being replaced by another language, in other words to
perpetuate the lead role of the language. This would also prevent
"natural" changes, in theory for example the spreading of the
minority languages and shrinking of the main official language. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">You
mentioned in this context the "problem" of Anglicisms. The
"purity" of language can not be ensured by the said constitutional
amendment. For this, a separate amendment would be required and would be highly
problematic and in my opinion undemocratic. How do you prevent foreign
influences by law? Establish a German equivalent of the <i>Académie française</i>
that dictates what words are allowed or prohibited? Or a counterpart of the
Latvian state authority that prohibits the public display of foreign words?
Perhaps some language police whose plain-clothed officers arrest people on the
street if they use illegal foreign words in private conversations? One of our
human rights would be removed by it. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">The
United States have no constitutionally defined language. English is only <i>de
facto</i> the main language. Theoretically, it could therefore be replaced as a
result of demographic changes, such as by Spanish with its rapidly
increasing number of speakers. Fear of just this has moved some Americans to
call for specification of English in the constitution. Opponents of this demand
assert that this is primarily racially motivated and that such a language law
would create unnatural rigidity. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Regards!<br>
Reinhard/Ron</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Helge Tietz</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:helgetietz@yahoo.com">helgetietz@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language politics" 2010.08.01 (06) [DE]</span><br>
<br>
Leve Marcus, leve Lowlanders,<br>
<br>
Dat haest du good schreven, so is dat juemmers, dat een wat ik woell un dat
annere wat ik schull.....De annern schuellt sik anpassen awer wenn de soelvigen
luet na Nordfriesland oder de Lausitz kuemmt den is dat alens vergeten,
"wi suend doch in Duetschland" heer heet dat op eenmol...un dat hebb
wi heer in nederland ok, ik muech so gern mhr. Wilders fragen of dat met de
anpassung vun de "Utlaenners' denn ok guelt wenn een Limburger naa Friesland kuemmt....schall Wilders denn wul frysk lern?
Daar dink he doch ni in droom an.....un so is dat oeverall, of in China, Frankriek,
Denmark oder
Duetschland....<br>
<br>
Groeten<br>
Helge</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Anja Meyfarth</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:aurinel@spray.se">aurinel@spray.se</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.01 (05)
[DE-NDS]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span class="gi"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Leve Marlou,<br>
<br>
ich halte es für sehr wahrscheinlich, daß die Lammertsche Idee Teil des
jährlichen Sommertheaters ist. Nur daß dieses Mal jemand aus der ersten Reihe
was von sich ibt und nicht einer der Hinterbänkler, der sich profilieren will.<br>
Ich halte die Festschreibung von Deutsch als Staatssprache im Grundgesetz für
völlig überflüssig. Deutsch ist Amtssprache, das kann eine Grundgesetzänderung
nicht noch stärker machen. Und als Instrument der Sprachpflege ist es meines
Erachtens nicht tauglich. Mal ganz abgesehen davon, daß das Volk das
Grundgesetz sowieso nicht kennt. (Wer kennt denn schon den Artikel 1?)<br>
Ich denke, daß eine plattdeutsche Führerscheinprüfung möglich ist. In
Schleswig-Holstein ist das sicher schwerer durchzusetzen, aber in Ostfriesland
kann ich mir das sehr gut vorstellen. Und natürlich ist sie gültig, eine
Nichtanerkennung wegen der Sprache ist rechtlich nicht zulässig. Da mußte sogar
das Patentamt in München kleinbeigeben, als ein Patent auf Platt eingereicht
wurde.<br>
<br>
Gröte ut Kiel,<br>
<br>
Anja</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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