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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 06 August 2010 - Volume 09<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">From: <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Ron/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif" class=" QrVm3d" name="upi" width="1" border="0" height="1"><span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a></span>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Orthography"</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Beste Ron,<br>
<br>
You wrote:<br>
<br>
> It reminded me that in Low Saxon, too, we have this supposed sequence
/tn/, albeit never in initial position, e.g. buten (“buutn”) ‘outside’.<br>
<br>
The example I gave earlier on, "tnootn" for Dutch "knoken"
illustrates very well the different sound between the two /tn/ clusters, the
first one is the "nasal stop" version and the last one is like
"buutn". The tip of the tongue also shifts towards the back of the
front teeth during the pronunciation of this word, because in the final /tn/
cluster you should effectively hear a -t-, not so in the initial one.<br>
<br>
> However, I still argue that the apparent allophone of /t/ in these cases
is really the mentioned “nasal stop”. You can’t say it any other way.<br>
<br>
It could indeed be labelled a "nasal stop" or maybe an "unvoiced
palatalized stop". The sound is very similar to how in Russian (and other
Slavic) languages, words like Днепр, for the Dnepr river, are pronounced [dn</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: "MS Mincho";">ɛ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">pr]. Also compare how Russian inflects the word день,
for day: дня, дни, дней [d</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma;">̻</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">n</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma;">̻</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">a, d</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma;">̻</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">n</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma;">̻</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">i, d</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma;">̻</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">n</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma;">̻</span><span style="font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode";">ʲ</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">ej]<br>
<br>
A hundred years ago, Dutch professor Jacobus van Ginneken might have seen proof
of a Slavic substrate in this phenomenon. He wrote numerous articles about
Slavic relics in Dutch, one of them can be read here: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/3xcbg6q" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/3xcbg6q</a><br>
<br>
Kind greetings,<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium</span></span></p>
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