<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-alt:"ＭＳ 明朝";
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:宋体;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
span.gi
{mso-style-name:gi;}
span.gd
{mso-style-name:gd;}
span.go
{mso-style-name:go;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 06 August 2010 - Volume 06<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</span></a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</span></a><br>
=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Paul Anisman</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:panisman@gmail.com">panisman@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Orthography" 2010.08.06 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Just to throw in my two
cents re what Sandy reports as the existence of "'knock" being
pronounced as "tnock" - I'd venture to guess that it's a progression
of the original /k/ of [knak] having made its way forward from the velar area,
to become homorganic with the /n/ that follows it....and that the "t"
remains unreleased, since it would be extremely difficult to articulate
an initial "tn" cluster without either intruding a vowel, or without blowing
out an awful lot of air for aspiration. Guess you'd have to stand some
distance away from other folks, or they'd be in "spray city". <br>
<br>
So - the /n/ of this "tn" cluster is preceded by a nasal release, and
the /t/ is anatomically mandated to be homorganic with the nasal that releases
it. <br>
<br>
Of course, a good question would be--did the "kn" evolve directly
into "tn" in those Tayside dialects...or was there a
"knock"> "nock">"tnock" sequence?
Intuitively, I'd have to vote for the former, but you historical linguist
guys/gals in the gang would know lots better.<br>
<br>
--Paul <br>
Maryland USA</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: Orthography<br>
<br>
Interesting point, Paul!<br>
<br>
When I read Sandy’s post about <i>kn-</i>
apparently having turned into <i>tn-</i>
in Tayside dialects my first reaction was that it was interesting but easy to
understand as dental assimilation of /k/ to /n/. But now I tried to say /tnok/
and found that it is actually hard to pronounce unless I inserted a “small”
vowel in between. Another way is, as you suggested (I think), to keep the
tongue in the position for /n/ and pretty much simultaneously pronounce a stop
that I can only describe as “nasal stop.” It is definitely neither a [t] nor a
glottal stop but is produced in the lower nasal passage. (There ought to be an
IPA symbol for that, but I am not familiar with one.)<br>
<br>
I doubt that it developed from /knok/ > /nok/, because then it would most
likely have affected <i>all</i> words beginning with /n/, unless we are talking
about a highly literate speaker population that was influenced by written
forms. Highly unlikely, I’d say.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=========================================================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br>
<a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>
or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a><br>
<a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</span></a>.<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</span></a><br>
=========================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>