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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 08 August 2010 - Volume 05<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Orthography" 2010.08.06 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">From: R.
F. Hahn <<a href="http://uk.mc264.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Subject:
Orthography </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153);">Paul,<br>
<br>
I wonder if the /k/ before /n/ got lost during Norman times, since initial /kn/
is a non-permissible sequence in Romance languages. So it may already have
happened by Chaucer's time, at least in prestige varieties of English.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Thing is, before Chaucer's
time, there <em>were</em> no prestige varieties
of English. If you were somebody, or aspired to be, you spoke
French. Initially Norman French, though by Chaucer's time, following the
rise of the Angevins and Plantagenets, that too had acquired a
"backwoodsy" reputation.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">English was for the lower
orders, and while it borrowed heavily from French (partly by people hoping to
improve their status), I suspect that French pronunciation wouldn't have a lot
of impact. French-speakers wouldn't even bother trying to speak English,
correct pronunciation or not.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The major turn-around was
the 14th Century, largely under the twin impacts of the Great Plague (which
made labourers scarce and thus valuable) and the rise of the merchant
class. The latter spoke English and Flemish in their day-to-day dealings;
they had money, and thus, ultimately, influence. Chaucer himself was very
much an example of the English commoner with influence in the Court.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The transformation was
incredibly fast; Edward I who ruled at the start of the 14th C spoke virtually
no English - he knew a few choice swear-words. His great-grandsons Richard II,
and Henry Bollingbroke who usurped Richard to become Henry IV, ruled at the end
of the century, and both routinely used English as their first language.
Henry's son Henry V was monolingually English, he needed an interpreter when
negotiating with France.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">So, back to the topic of
"kn", I would still expect the native use to have survived unaffected
by French to at least 1300, probably starting to fade around the time of
Chaucer and the Plague.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">This period of transition is
very well described in Basil Cottle's book "Triumph of English" if
you ever bump into a copy. It must be out of print by now.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
Paul</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Derby</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">England</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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