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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-family: Arial;">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 10 August 2010 - Volume 05<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><br>
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Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</span></a><br>
=====================================================</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language varieties"</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Beste Joachim en Ron,</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Ge schreeft:</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="NL"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">1. Is de
verwandeling van het suffix "-en" in [</span></span><span style="font-family: "MS Gothic"; color: navy;" lang="ZH-CN">ɘ</span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="NL">] ook Algemeen Beschaaft Nederlands (ABN)?</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="NL"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Zeker. Komt doordat ABN toch vooral beïnvloed is geweest door de centrale (=
Frankische) dialecten van de Lage Landen. Brabants en Hollands zijn per slot
van rekening (Neder-) Frankische dialecten. Als je wil horen hoe de
"Rheinische Fächer" in deze context een rol spelen, klik hier:</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://gaer27.uni-trier.de/CLL/Sequenz6/start.htm" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="NL">http://gaer27.uni-trier.de/CLL/Sequenz6/start.htm</span></a></span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">In het algemeen geldt dat hoe verder je van de Rijn weg gaat, hoe meer je
bijvoorbeeld "eetn" hoort i.p.v. "eten" of "ete".
Zowel in zuidwestelijke als in noordoostelijke richting.</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="NL">2. Hoe maken ze het in de Nedersaksische
varieteiten in Nederland?</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Zie opmerking hierboven</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Wat de geografische verbreiding betreft van het verkleinwoord "-je,
-tje", versus "-ken, chen", geldt een andere uitleg. </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">"-ken" is historisch altijd Brabants geweest, terwijl "-je,
tje" zeg maar kustfenomenen zijn. Dus ook Hollands. Toen de Nederlandse
standaardtaal in de 17de eeuw haar beslag kreeg, was de roem van het Brabants
(en ook het Vlaams) voorbij, daarom heeft hier het Hollands gezegevierd.</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Is ook zo voor de diftongering, dus bijvoorbeeld Nederlands
"wijn", Brabants "waën", German "Wein", en geen
Vlaams of Saksisch "wi(i)n".</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Feit is wel dat de diftongering in Holland in de 17de eeuw nog niet zòòò oud
was (voordien zei men ook "wi(i)n"). Na de val van Antwerpen in 1585,
zou een influx van zuiderlingen in Holland dat proces bespoedigd hebben.</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Als de Duitse Oostelijke dialecten (kolonisatiedialecten?) ook geen finale
-n- bevatten kan dat inderdaad duiden op Brabantse/Hollandse invloed. Als hun
verkleinwoord "-ken, -chen" is, eerder Brabants, indien "-je,
-tje", eerder Hollands/Vlaams.</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Vandaag nog op 2 Märkische woorden gestoten die van Nederlandse komaf zijn:
knielen, "to kneel" (E), in tegenstelling tot Duits "knien"
(zowel Noordelijk als Zuidelijk Germaans heeft -l- vormen), en knüssel,
knücksel, knösel < knoesel (Zuid-Nederlands, behalve Limburg), tegenover
"enkel" (D), "ankle" (E), "Knöchel" (G).</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Ik vind jouw Nederlandse schrijfsels behoorlijk indrukwekkend by the way!</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">Met vriendelijke groet,</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="NL">Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">----------</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>>
<br>
Subject: Language varieties<br>
<br>
Bedankt, beste Luc.<br>
<br>
Je schreef:</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="NL">Vandaag nog op 2 Märkische woorden
gestoten die van Nederlandse komaf zijn: knielen, "to kneel" (E), in
tegenstelling tot Duits "knien" (zowel Noordelijk als Zuidelijk
Germaans heeft -l- vormen), en knüssel, knücksel, knösel < knoesel
(Zuid-Nederlands, behalve Limburg), tegenover "enkel" (D),
"ankle" (E), "Knöchel" (G).</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL"> </span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="NL">De Noord-Nedersaksische equivalenten ter
vergelijking en volledigheid:</span><span style="" lang="NL"></span></p>
<ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">/kney-ĕn/
kneen ~ knei(e)n</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> [knɛˑɪ̆(ɘ)n] ~ [knaˑɪ̆(ɘ</span><span style="font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";" lang="NL"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">)n]
(knielen | to kneel | knien)</span><br style="">
</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" lang="ZH-CN">/vrist/ <i>Wrist</i>
[vrɪ</span><span style="font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";" lang="NL"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">st] (enkel | ankle | Fußgelenk, ook pols | wrist |
Handgelenk)</span></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";" lang="NL">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">/kneev-ĕl/ ~ /knööv-ĕl/ </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Knẹvel </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">~ </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Knọ̈vel </i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">[ˈkne</span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" lang="ZH-CN">ːvl̩] ~
[ˈknɛːvl̩] ~ [ˈknøːvl̩] ~
[ˈknœːvl̩] (knokkel | knuckle | Knöchel)<br>
(misschien verwant aan /knööv/ <i>Knọ̈ọ̈f</i> [ˈknøːf] ~ [ˈknœː</span><span style="font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";" lang="NL"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">f]
(sterkte | strength | Stärke))</span></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br>
Groeten,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
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