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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 11 August 2010 - Volume 02<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Helge Tietz</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:helgetietz@yahoo.com">helgetietz@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language varieties" 2010.08.10 (06) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Luc, I can confirm your
suspicions about the West-Vlaams-Low Saxon connections with a nice little story
which I was to observe many years ago when I traveled with my mother, a truly
Holsteener Deern from Nienborstel, just south of Rendsborg in Sleswick-Holsten,
for a trip to Brugge. <br>
<br>
While walking through the beautiful mediaeval city my mother started more and
more listening to what the locals were saying to each other and found that a
lot of what they said she understood, and she understood a great deal more than
e.g. in Amsterdam. Eventually, she went into a shop and decided to simply speak
our local Low Saxon dialect to the shop keeper, telling him "ik heff min
voet wundlopen un bruk een plaaster (ik hef min veut woendlopen on broek een
ploaster)" and the shop keeper immediately understood showing her
different patches, she chose the one she wanted, he told her the price and
there was never a misunderstanding. I, as a child, was quite surprised that far
away from home we could speak our local Low Saxon dialect while in many places
in between nobody had understood us and some would look down to us as backward
peasants, in particular since Low Saxon knowledge has disappeared from most
Northern German towns. <br>
<br>
I have no doubt that there is a connection, even some place-names appear
similar because there is a small village near Bordesholm in the Rendsborg
district which is also called Brugge (although in German spelling with the
Umlaut). Heist (Knokke-Heist) is another example, which also exists in Holsten.
Perhaps it would be interesting to investigate whether even more place-names
share similarities.<br>
<br>
Groeten,<br>
Helge</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language varieties" 2010.08.10 (04) [DE-NL]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;" lang="EN-US">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Do you think there is a possibility of Western Flemish and
Zealandic being influenced by Saxon? There has been talk of Saxons, who began
haunting the Continental and British North Sea coasts well before settling in Britain, settled on the coasts of what are now Belgium and adjacent parts of the Southern
Netherlands and Northern France.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
Of course, this common <i>-n</i> thing in Western Flemish, Zealandic and Saxon
could very be coincidence. But there are other common features, such as /peird/
<i>peyrd</i> (vs Hollandic <i>paard</i>) for ‘horse’.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Perhaps there are influences
but I don't think this is one of them. '-en' is the original form and '-e' the
innovation. So '-en' in Western Flemish, Zealandic and Saxon is just a common
lack of innovation.<br>
<br>
'peerd' vs. 'paard' is the same. 'ee' is the more original form and 'aa' is a
Hollandic innovation. One could think that 'paard' is a reflection of the Latin
source 'paravederus' which has 'a', but with forms like 'waard' and 'haard'
which clearly never had an 'a' historically the more logical explanation is
that 'paard' is from an earlier Dutch word 'peerd' (which indeed is attested in
older Dutch). The Western Flemish/Saxon similarities are again just common lack
of innovation.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: Hannelore Hinz
<<a href="mailto:HanneHinz@t-online.de" target="_blank">HanneHinz@t-online.de</a>></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL-L "Language
varieties" 2010.08.10 (05) [NL]</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ick mell mi hier ok noch tau Wuurd,<span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">in Mäkelborg sünd diss' Wüür so as knoewel noch begäng':<span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Knœwel, -b-, Pl. meist Knœwel, daneben -s, -n m. Knöchel, bes. Fingerknochen,
Finger, oft derb verächtlich. Zum Kind: wasch di ok dei Knœwels. Drohung: ick
haug' di up dei Knœwels, du sast sei in 'n Noors stäken; ick slag di dei
Knœwels tau ne Knackwust. Knœwelborg erfundener ON. im Flohrätel 'Knöchelburg';
- knœweln, mit den Fingern berühren, bearbeiten, Teig kneten.<span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Knœw Pl. f. Kräfte: Baas is, wer dei meisten Knœw' hett.<span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Knœsel m. kurze Tabakspfeife, bes. die der Seeleute, wie Kœsel, Brœsel,
Bappen, Kalkstümmel. Dim. Knœselken, ein Lichtstummel: Zs. Tuchthusknœsel;
knœselig : unordentlich zusammengedrückt, -gefaltet; knœseln : befühlen,
knüllen, an etwas herumdrücken. <span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Lit.: Wossidlo/Teuchert<span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Deh jüst an mien Gedanken up de Oort von knœseln. <span style="" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Best Gräuten.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hanne</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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