<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-alt:"ＭＳ 明朝";
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:宋体;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
span.gi
{mso-style-name:gi;}
span.gd
{mso-style-name:gd;}
span.go
{mso-style-name:go;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 12 August 2010 - Volume 01<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</span></a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</span></a><br>
=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Jonny</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="FR"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (03)
[DE-EN-NDS]</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="FR"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Marcus,</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Du schreyvst to my
"Wiemen":</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: teal;">>> Are you sure that it's "wood pile" (Holzstapel)?
I only know the word as "wood </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: teal; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>> pole" (Holzstange).</span></p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">You're absolutely
right! I had been too sure that '-pile' (Lat.: hair) did mean something thin
and long and didn't look into a dictionary.</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Thanks!</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal">Jonny Meibohm</p>
<p style="font-family: courier new,monospace;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Courier New";"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">Lower </span>Saxony, Germany</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Roland Desnerck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:desnerck.roland@skynet.be">desnerck.roland@skynet.be</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Etymology" 2010.08.11 (06) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Beste toalmoats oaltegoare,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">In mijn West-Vlaams van Oostende kennen we:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">vimme: stroschelf;</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">hoetvimme (of hoetvumme): houtstapel.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">hoojvimme (of hoojvumme): hooimijt.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">et veust van en hoojvimme: het bovenste deel van een hooimijt.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">In de hoop dat jullie hier iets aan hebben, groet ik jullie,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Toetnoasteki,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="NL">Roland Desnerck</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="NL">Watergangstraat 9</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" lang="NL">8420 De Haan</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">tel. 0032 59
235657</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Etymology" 2010.08.11 (06) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span> <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com" target="_blank">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">According to data I collected for my
Plattmakers dictionary (<a href="http://www.plattmakers.de/index.php?show=2131" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;"><http://www.plattmakers.de/index.php?show=2131></span></a>)
the word is at least known from Groningen and
the Veluwe in the west to Mecklenburg in the east and from Schleswig
in the north to Waldeck in the south. That means it's common Low Saxon. I
didn't find any references that the word is known in High German or Dutch.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">There are though. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Not surprisingly, the word is also known in Western Flemish as
'vim', 'viem', 'vumme', 'fiem' and 'vijm', meaning a big pile of wood or straw.
In use in Bruges, Ostend,
Poperinge, Roeselare,
and the very west in general. In Old Saxon 'fimba' was a stack of grain, but
Old and Middle High German had the word too, resp. 'vîna' and 'vimme', a bunch.
For some reason, it must have vanished in the upper lands. I have no idea why,
maybe interference? Flemish also has 'vimme' for 'fin' (E), Flosse (G), just
like some Swedish dialects do, 'fime'. Maybe one 'vimme' killed another one?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Yes, the 'vim/Fimm(e)' word
is used outside Low Saxon. But 'Wiem(en)' is a different word. When I said "<span style="color: navy;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">I didn't find any references
that the word is known in High German or Dutch.</span><span style="color: black;">"
I spoke about 'Wiem(en)'. Dutch 'wijm' meaning 'wilg', 'willow' exists and is
also claimed to be derived from Latin 'vimen' just as Grimms do claim for
'Wiem(en)' but there seems to be no direct relation between the two very
well-defined Low Saxon meanings for (rather unflexible) poles on one side and
the Latin and Dutch words for flexible wood. It's both wood but that's all.
Perhaps they are related but I have not yet seen any reference that connects both
to a bigger image.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</span></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"><a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a></span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Etymology" 2010.08.11 (06) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">from
Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heathererndall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">heathererndall@tiscali.co.uk</a></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">re this
current thread and all responses so far</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Now
I know why I follow this forum and value it so highly! The depth of knowledge
that a simple query can produce is amazing. Thank you all so much.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Especial
thanks to Marcus for those Vine references near here. Perhaps I should explain
why I was inquiring. Having read Prof Dyer's statement re vine/ vinestall, I
was struck by the co-incidence of the word and that of a small field lying next
to one of our older properties. On a 1730 map the field is named Vineyard and
the much larger field next to it Vine Close. We had debated some years ago
whether 'vineyard' and 'vinyard' were one and the same thing and had come to
the conclusion that they probably were and that this small enclosure was or had
been at some time a 'vinyard' for vines. The property's records go back to c
1270 so it is possible. </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">However
I would now like to re-think the whole thing. It would make much more sense</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">a)
because it is quite a small area and </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">b)
because it is right next to the house, </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">that
this 'vineyard' contained the woodstack that served the house and kept its
fires going!</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I
am sure Marcus' Vine Street
in Droitwich derives from wood stacks. If I have time I'll investigate the others.
I shall certainly ask members at the Worcester Archeological Society. Perhaps
it will ring a bell with them too.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Many
many thanks for such clear definitions / derivations</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Heather</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Worcestershire
UK</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=========================================================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br>
<a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>
or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a><br>
<a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</span></a>.<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</span></a><br>
=========================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>