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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 15 August 2010 - Volume 09<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Hellinckx Luc</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Resources"</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Roger,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You wrote:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"><span style="word-spacing: 0px;">In a tabel companring vocabulary
between English, Danish, German, Dutch, Swedish and Islandic.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">the English "tomorrow" is translated as
"morgen" in German but "temorgen" in Dutch.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">I never heard "temorgen" for "tomorrow".</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Me
neither...but...,"temorgen" does have the meaning "this
morning", in my native dialect:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'k Zèn temereged nàà de mèt gewést = Ik ben te morgend naar de markt
geweest = Ik ben van de morgen... = Ik
ben deze morgen ...</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Kind greetings,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Luc Hellinckx,
Halle, Belgium</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Henry Pijffers</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:henry.pijffers@gmail.com">henry.pijffers@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Resources" 2010.08.15 (06) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Marcus Buck skreev:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">><br>
> That's a 'terminus ante quem' (limit before which) not a real dating,
isn't<br>
> it? I would guess that language is much older than that although the<br>
> development most likely was continuous and any "X years ago was the
time<br>
> language became sophisticated" is rather arbitrary.<br>
></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I've read a theory once that
technological development and language go<br>
hand in hand. If one human being discovers a new technology, he won't<br>
be able to teach it to other humans without the aid of language. That<br>
would mean homo habilis (the first homo to use stone tools) would have<br>
used language already, which would the date to 1.5 Mya. Of course one<br>
can always debate on how big their language capabilities were. And<br>
then there are the great apes, that have shown certain language<br>
capabilities.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
> Another string of thought:<br>
> If Homo sapiens had the brains 150,000 years ago why did it take him so
long<br>
> to develop extensive knowledge and why was the development so rapid in the<br>
> most recent period?<br>
></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I would think 6 billion
brains tend to develop things faster than a<br>
couple thousands could. Besides that, most developments are based on<br>
previous developments. The more we figure out, the more combinations<br>
we can make and the faster it goes.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
> why didn't<br>
> we develop any relevant civilization before 10,000 BP? It clearly was some<br>
> kind of social evolution that lead to modern civilization.<br>
></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Maybe there was, but we just
can't find the traces anymore (ok,<br>
unlikely). Maybe there was plenty room to go around and so there just<br>
was no need to develop social structures.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
> It's notable that the arms race of technology, the begin of agriculture
and<br>
> the end of the ice age coincide. But I do not see the connection. The end
of<br>
> the ice age is a very important event with far-reaching consequences<br>
> world-wide, but agriculture should have been possible even before. The<br>
> agriculturally interesting areas were just in different regions. So how
did<br>
> the end of the ice age trigger the development of agriculture?<br>
></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Recent insights say that it
may have started 20,000 years ago already.<br>
But here's one theory:<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas#The_Younger_Dryas_and_the_beginning_of_agriculture" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas#The_Younger_Dryas_and_the_beginning_of_agriculture</a><br>
<br>
(Btw, technically we are currently in an ice age, because the earth<br>
currently has ice caps. What people commonly call an ice age, is<br>
actually a glacial (where the ice caps advance). We are currently<br>
living in an interglacial, in which the ice caps retreat.)<br>
<br>
good gaon,<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Henry Pijffers</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Sandy Fleming</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Resources" 2010.08.15 (06) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">> From: Marcus Buck <<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>><br>
> Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2010.08.15 (02) [EN]<br>
><br>
> From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>><br>
><br>
> p. 16-18 Jean-Marie Hombert (director of the CNRS and linked to the<br>
> university of Lyon) dates, in an interview, the origin of modern<br>
> languages (with a complex syntax) 70.000 to 55.000 years ago, based on<br>
> the hypothesis that for crossing sees and oceans a spohisticated level<br>
> of language is supposed to be necessary. Distances over see over 100<br>
> km needed a developped form of communication for preparing food for<br>
> more than 3 days etc.<br>
><br>
> That's a 'terminus ante quem' (limit before which) not a real dating,<br>
> isn't it? I would guess that language is much older than that although<br>
> the development most likely was continuous and any "X years ago was<br>
> the time language became sophisticated" is rather arbitrary.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Yes, I found this thing
annoying and I'm glad you've posted such a good<br>
argument.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
> Is curiosity a wholly social phenomenon? Why did nobody invent the<br>
> wheel before 6000 BP? A wheel is less useful without streets or draft<br>
> animals, but even to a stone-age man living in the flat steppe a<br>
> pushcart is useful e.g. to transport his tent, isn't it? Did they have<br>
> so few belongings that they could transport it on their backs and<br>
> carts were just unnecessary?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I think it is a social or,
rather, political phenomenon. You might think about American Indians, they
could have been inventive but they had a lifestyle they were happy with and
plenty of space to live it in, why make an effort in new directions? Changing a
formula that works can be a recipe for disaster.<br>
<br>
I'd guess that even if a cart could be used to transport a tent, there are
always less inventive solutions that can be found. For example, design a tent
whose parts are no more than the family can carry on their backs, or learn to
make a tent from widely available materials. This is a lot easier than trying
to figure out how to make a wooden wheel last for hundreds of miles (which
probably involves knowing how to forge a metal band), not to mention how to
make a low-friction axle to fit it to a cart that's not turning.<br>
<br>
One thing I would suggest from observation (even although it's a highly unsatisfactory
thought) is that technology is mainly inspired by war. If the population rises
and people start to get territorial, eventually there's a pressing need for a
three-man chariot, and the handcart comes along later as a spin-off, maybe
supplied by out-of-work chariot-makers.<br>
<br>
It perhaps all goes back to home economics: food, shelter, transport, clothing.
All you need is spears, a good pair of legs, and the hides you get from the
animals you kill. It's not until you have a pressing need to kill other people
that you need any more than that.<br>
<br>
It's not really different today. Countries spend immense amounts of money on
developing weapons, and much of our peace-time technology arises from spin-offs
from such things.<br>
<br>
We could consciously attempt development for the sake of development, but I
think that for the most part, we don't. For example, the space programme
inspired quite a few spin-offs, but people really aren't happy with paying too
much for it; they mostly don't see the point.<br>
<br>
Even "big science" seems to be some sort of warlike posing, "our
atom-smasher is bigger than your atom-smasher".<br>
<br>
Sometimes you hear the threap that the Greeks had steam power, why didn't they
put it to good use? It's because they couldn't drill pistons. Principles of
steam power were known off-and-on for long enough, it's only when the English
desperately needed to find a way to bore deep, smooth cannons for their
warships (and finally did) that making pistons became a practical possibility.<br>
<br>
I think this is the normal way of things with technological advance: the natural
world just doesn't present the sort of challenges that demand thinking that far
outside the box, only warfare does that. Maybe in future enough people will
realise that the planet is going to die, if not one way then another, and
nature will finally be challenging enough for us!<br>
<br>
Oops, well off-topic! But it is an attempt to answer a direct question that was
posed.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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