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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 15 August 2010 - Volume 01<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Cliff Smuts</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:csmuts@xsinet.co.za">csmuts@xsinet.co.za</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.08.14 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Cliff Smuts <a href="mailto:csmuts@xsinet.co.za" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="SV">csmuts@xsinet.co.za</span></a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: Afrikaans
connection</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hello Hendrik and LLers</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Re the construction"mijn dochters aan het werk op school voor nieuwe
speeltoestellen te bemachtigen". In Arikaans voor (Afr. vir) would also not fit in this
construction, no matter what the meaning of the caption is (supposed to be). If
the caption is translated directly/ verbatim in Afrikaans it woud be something
like "my dogters aan't werk op skool vir nuwe speeltoestele te bemagtig,
which does not make sense, as we have an "om" theat normally goes
with "te". Looking at the caption, and considerig the scooling
situation in SA I would think could be following in Afr: "My dogters aan't
werk <strong>om</strong> 'n skool <strong>met </strong>nuwe toestelle te bemagtig"
or in Dutch: My dochters aan het werk om een school met nuwe speeltoestellen te
bemachtigen" - My daughters at work making new playing equipment to
empower a school.' Incidentally that is the only meaning I can see in this
situation. In this case it would mean there are two wrong prepositions in the
Dutch caption</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mark Dreyer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.08.14 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Henry Pijffers</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL-L South African
connection?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You wrote:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">"I was looking at
someone's web profile, and as caption for a picture, she had put: "mijn
dochters aan het werk op school voor nieuwe speeltoestellen te
bemachtigen". Now, this construction with "voor" is incorrect in
Dutch. However, it struck me as Afrikaans. Would a construction like that with
"voor" be allowed in Afrikaans? Or not?"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Mark:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I think I have a notion what
is going on here, but it doesn't seem to be either Afrikaans or AG Nederlands.
Perhaps hyper-correction of the latter, by an Afrikaner? Mind you it seems
unlikely.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Assuming I understand I
would have couched it so in Afrikaans:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'My dogter op skool is besig om nuwe bemagtingsspeeltoestelle te ontwerp.'</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">or:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">"My dogters op skool speel met 'n nuwe bemagtigingstoestel."</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">If I had to cleave closer to
the actual text I would try:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'...my dogter is aan die werk op skool vir nuwe speeltoestelle te bemagtig
(ter bemagtiging?).' But then I don't
understand it. It isn't good Afrikaans. It isn't even bad Afrikaans. Is she
developing empowerment toys, or is she (or they) playing with empowerment
toys in front of her (them)?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'Voor' in Afrikaans means
'in front of', 'prior to' or sometimes 'at' in English, as in:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Daar is 'n modderplas voor jou. =
There is a mud-plug in front of you.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Was jou skoene voor (of 'voordat') jy binnestap. = Wash your shoes before you step inside.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hy staan voor die deur. = He stands
at the door.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'Vir' in Afrikaans means
'to' or 'for' in English:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek gee die boek vir jou. = I give
the book to you.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Vir 'n appel en 'n ei gekoop. =
Bought for an apple & an egg (sold for a song).</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Opoffering vir wat? Verniet.
= Sacrifice for what? For nothing.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Let me try in English:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'My daughter at school is
developing new empowerment games - or toys.'</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Maybe:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'...my daughters at school
playing with new empowerment games - ot toys.'</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">This may be wandering off
the subject but 'te bemachtigen' doesn't make good Afrikaans either.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'te bemagtig' or rather 'om
te bemagtig' means 'to empower'.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'ter bemagting...' or rather
'ter bemagtiging van...' means 'for the empoerment of...'</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Good gaan,<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Mark Dreyer</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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