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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 18 August 2010 - Volume 02</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Sandy Fleming</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Evolution" 2010.08.17 (05) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">> From: Mike Morgan <<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Mike Morgan <<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>><br>
><br>
> I think a misunderstanding has crept unawares into the discussion of<br>
> language origins and sign language<br>
><br>
> Although there seems to be little question that some great apes have<br>
> acquired a certain degree of faculty with sign VOCABULARY (exactly<br>
> what degree is maybe still in question), I am fairly certain that they<br>
> have NEVER been shown to possess sign LANGUAGE.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Yes, of course. The only
sentence I've ever seen an ape make was a young<br>
bonobo in a documentary who signed with British signs, "doll in cup".<br>
This was the only example offered in an hour-long documentary. The<br>
bonobo was playing with a doll and a cup at the time, and the signs were<br>
clear enough for it to be quite startling if you know the language. But<br>
thinking about it afterwards you realise that the signs aren't in BSL<br>
order and the sentence makes no sense as the doll wouldn't have fit in<br>
the cup.<br>
<br>
The ape was very young and the researches assumed that her progress<br>
would continue as it had begun, so what happened after that, I wonder?<br>
But researchers back then were very keen to put forward the idea that<br>
apes had language, I think, even if it meant pretending they had more<br>
evidence than they did.<br>
<br>
I also wonder about claims of apes being able to understand English<br>
sentences. Researchers obviously have to spend a long time with the apes<br>
and it must be very difficult to remain impartial... and then you think<br>
of your friends who insist that their dog or cat "understands every word<br>
they say" (but not "sit", apparently :)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
> ALL that said, I have no doubt that the acquisition of language by<br>
> mankind involved both vocal speech and manual signs developing<br>
> equally ... and taught exactly that when I was at Addis Ababa U,with<br>
> ድንቅ ነሽ aka Lucy
(or a reasonable facsimile) lying peacefully just down<br>
> the road a block.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Expressing a strong opinion
or being near an appropriate object doesn't<br>
lend credence to a scientific theory.<br>
<br>
Heather originally said that the Fox P2 gene originally resulted in fine<br>
finger control, and fine control of areas like the mouth came later.<br>
This suggests that they didn't develop equally.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Evolution" 2010.08.18 (01) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From: <a href="mailto:clarkedavid8@aol.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">clarkedavid8@aol.com</span></a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Subject: LL-L "Evolution" 2010.08.17 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">All geologists agree that the current ice age never ended and that
we are still in it. The current interstatial (warm period) began around 12,000
BC and will probably end soon (although not quite as suddenly as in the
blockbuster film made on the subject a few years ago). On past experience, the
ice will advance to just north of London
and there will be a wide belt of tundra to the south of it. Global warming is
not the problem. I think the north African countries should be welcomed into
the European Union with open arms.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">In fact, ice ages are a quite unusual phenomenon in geological
history (there was another one in the Permian), it's just that we happen to be
in one and it's still going on. The earth has usually (outside occasional ice
ages) been quite a lot warmer than it is now.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">It's getting off-topic-er
and off-topic-er, but: What's "<span style="color: black;">Global warming is
not the problem." supposed to mean? Climate change is indeed a natural
phenomenon that has always happened throughout the whole history of the world
and the world has always survived (even the most apocalyptic climate changes
following cosmic impacts etc.). From a geological point of view on a geological
scale of time the man-made global warming will just be a small bump in the
time/temperature graph (and a steep fall in the time/biodiversity graph). But
we are living now and here and we care about our puny little human lives and
those of our children, grand-children etc. When the ice age ended the sea level
rose about 100 m. The sea level rise in the 21st century will be ridiculously
small compared to that number. But the difference is that today there are
cities and villages on our coasts with millions of people living in them. These
didn't exist in the ice age. The ice age people were nomads and the water rose
so slowly they hardly even noticed that they retracted to higher lying areas.
Many species went extinct with the onset of the ice age and many went extinct
with the end of the ice age (or any of the previous ice ages). From a
geological point of views they are just some fossils, but here and now we are
speaking about sweet little furry buddies with big eyes and a sad look on their
face: "please sir, Mr Human, do not extinguish me!" I never saw a
dodo, I never saw a Tasmanian tiger, I never saw one of Steller's sea cows or a
passenger pigeon or a great auk. They are all gone. Their departure did no harm
to humans, but still I'd rather live in a world in which they are not gone. And
if my grandchildren one day ask: "Grampa, where are all the animals
gone?" I don't want to answer them: "Well, it would have been uncool
to drive to buy my morning rolls with a bike! I needed to drive the SUV so my
neighbors don't think I'm poor or a silly tree hugger! Priorities, my son,
priorities!"<br>
<br>
Global warming is a fact of the present. I don't know the data for other areas,
but there is temperature data for Germany since 1761. The data shows
that the middle temperature was stable at about 7.8 °C until 1900. Since then the
middle temperature has risen to 9.3 °C and is constantly rising with 0.3 °C per
decade since 1960. I don't think it's in any way meaningful to think that this
development can be stopped by a new glacial. This new glacial period could
still be 10,000 years away. I don't think the European union will last that
long.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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