<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRon%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:宋体;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"TITUS Cyberbit Basic";
panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:roman;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-318701569 -804291461 30 0 -2147417601 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
span.gi
{mso-style-name:gi;}
span.gd
{mso-style-name:gd;}
span.go
{mso-style-name:go;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 19 August 2010 - Volume 01<br>
</b><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</span></a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</span></a><br>
=====================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike Morgan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Evolution" 2010.08.18 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">In response to my joking
pomposity:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
>> ... and taught exactly that when I was at Addis Ababa U,with<br>
>> ድንቅ ነሽ aka Lucy
(or a reasonable facsimile) lying peacefully just down<br>
>> the road a block.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Sandy opined:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
> Expressing a strong opinion or being near an appropriate object doesn't<br>
> lend credence to a scientific theory.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">indeed it doesn't ... and
wasn't intended to really ... sorry if it came off that way ... opinions stand
or fall based on how believable they are, in light of, including other things,
the evidence .... and plausibility of conjecture<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, for language acquisition (prehistorically in humans) there is
rather little direct hard evidence and lots of conjecture ... and I admit that
I am willing to accept the conjectured role of gesture (and, on the basis of
rather less evidence, sign language) in the origin of human language as much
because of my personal involvement with sign language as with the facts of
integrated neuromotor control of mouth and fingers ... but I remain sceptical
of reports of ape "language" ... which, it seems, are more in the eye
of the beholder than in the generally unpublished raw data...</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">
U C > || Mike Morgan<br>
==========================<br>
linguist</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> soon to be @
IGNOU-UCLan</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Applied Sign Linguistics
Programme</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">
New Delhi, India</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);"><a href="mailto:clarkedavid8@aol.com">clarkedavid8@aol.com</a></span></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Evolution" 2010.08.18 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Global warming
is not the problem - global cooling is. The geological consensus seems to be
that any man-made global warming will only delay the inevitable
return of the ice for a thousand years or so. It is misleading to say
"When the ice age ended" in relation to the current ice age, because
it has not yet ended. You could say "When the last cold period ended"
or "At the start of the current interstatial". When the current ice
age finally does come to an end some time in the indefinite future, the climate
will get warmer, lilke in the Eocene, for example. but we will quite likely already
be extinct or have changed into something new and strange by then.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">David Clarke</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Marcus
Buck</span><span style="color: black;"> <<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org" target="_blank">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;">Subject: LL-L "Evolution" 2010.08.18 (01) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From: <a href="mailto:clarkedavid8@aol.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">clarkedavid8@aol.com</span></a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Subject: LL-L "Evolution" 2010.08.17 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">All geologists agree that the current ice age never ended and that
we are still in it. The current interstatial (warm period) began around 12,000
BC and will probably end soon (although not quite as suddenly as in the
blockbuster film made on the subject a few years ago). On past experience, the
ice will advance to just north of London
and there will be a wide belt of tundra to the south of it. Global warming is
not the problem. I think the north African countries should be welcomed into
the European Union with open arms.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">In fact, ice ages are a quite unusual phenomenon in geological
history (there was another one in the Permian), it's just that we happen to be
in one and it's still going on. The earth has usually (outside occasional ice
ages) been quite a lot warmer than it is now.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">What's "Global warming is not the problem." supposed to
mean? ... When the ice age ended ..</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">-----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Evolution" 2010.08.18 (01) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">A bit of a question of
definitions here, depending on whether you're looking at geological or human
time scales:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">"All
geologists agree that the current ice age never ended and that we are still in
it."</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Quite true that
the current glacial cycle, which began about 1.8 million years ago, is almost
certainly going to continue with advances and retrreats. But to say
"we are still in it" only means something if you are aware of that
fact; if there's no ice, tundra or depressed temperatures where you are, you
aren't in an ice age. You might as well argue that, since warmer periods are overall
much more dominant, then the woolly mammoths etc weren't in an ice age, because
that was only a temporary blip in climate history.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">"Global
warming is not the problem."</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Because one day
ice will come back? One day the Atlantic will
close, you still have to cope with crossing it at the moment. The
expected cooling phase that would mark the ending of the current interglacial
(it's rather bigger than an "interstadial" which is a few
thousand years at most) is, by many models, overdue. The fact that we
aren't seeing it, in fact the reverse, is part of the evidence that human
activity is having an effect. But global warming is an issue of decades
or maybe centruries; glacial cycles are over tens of thousands of years.
Over geological time, nothing is a "problem", the term is
meaningless; landmasses move, climates change, species come and go. If you
happen to be one of the species going extinct, you've got a problem.
Until you <em>are</em> extinct: end of
problem.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">"I think
the north African countries should be welcomed into the European Union with
open arms."</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">So should America, ahead of the day the Atlantic
closes.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Paul</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Derby</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">England</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=========================================================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br>
<a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>
or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a><br>
<a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</span></a>.<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</span></a><br>
=========================================================</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>