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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 01 September 2010 - Volume 05</b><br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="" lang="FR">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
From:<span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"> <span class="gd">Mark Dreyer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Culture" 2010.09.01 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Beste Luc en
Jonny:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Onderwerp: LL-L
"Humour"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You reminisce...
Besides...hold your breath...remember that day when we jumped out of the water
and started to live on land? I was suffocating man! Now thàt was the start of
all evil...btw, I can't swim ;=)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'n Hollander vriend het die
eens met ons meegedeel: "Ek het 'n verdrag met die See. Ek gaan nie See
toe nie en die Haai kom nie kroeg toe nie."<br>
<br>
Groete,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">Mark</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:<span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"> <span class="gd">Mark Dreyer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Culture" 2010.09.01 (04) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span class="gi"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Beste Luc, Marcus &
Jonny:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL-L
"Culture"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">About the Beaker People
& Writing::</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">The interviewed
archeologists postulated a theory that these higher civilized people may have
been in contact with the inhabitants of Northern Africa,
maybe they even were descendants of the old Egyptians.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">Some points; Egypt is quite far as a non-maritime people of
Western Europe would see it, & Morocco quite close. Moreover,
unlike the case today, the thin coastal edge of a howling desert, but a
pleasant & bounteous savanna - wall-to-wall Kruger Park - look at the
rock-paintings of Tassili n Ajjir (Land of Four [Rivers])& elsewhere. The
Beaker Folk didn't need to go to Egypt for cultural interaction. The
Irish hold that Numidians were among their ancestors</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">Now the Egyptians
had papyrus. Without that, heiroglyphics is a non-starter. The nearest their
nearer neighbours the Sumerians came to a picture script was cuniform on
moulded clay. Have you considered how uncommon clay is in non-alluvial country?
You prospect for it, & when you find it you make pots with it - you don't
scribble on it & dump it for the archaeologists to find (The boffins agree
that most cuniform found is ephemera, pressed into un-fired, sun-dried clay
lumps, & dumped).</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">The carrying
medium for a script must commonly be material commonly available. In the
forests of Northern Europe the locals used
rune-staves, on split lengths of stick (many samples have been found. One, in Ireland, is a
length of hartshorn with the Viking runes cut in it - 'HARTSHORN'), & the
script used was most suitable for cutting & carving, but there is a
problem. Scribbled notes past their sell-by date make good kindling, & if
they aren't burnt, over the ages they will rot into the earth. The same applies
to the long-bow, an instrument of telling Historical Moment: If they had not
been written about how would we know about them? Less than a handful survive to
date, & most of those were raised with the Mary Rose.I wonder how much of
our paper-based book-bound literature will survive the next Dark Age?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">In the North we
know of two carved scripts, one is the Teutonic Eights & the other is the
Gaelic Ogham. We cannot draw definitive conclusions about a written culture in
either based on the records carved in stone, a rare medium, except that there
was a script. Now the Germans & the Gaels had bronze & steel, it was an
option, for monumental purposes, to carve stone. What did the Beaker People
have - flint. Stone to carve stone?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">The most insular
Berbers of all (heh, heh) are the so-called Tuareg. Their script, Tifinargh,
can be drawn in the sand or scrawled on a stone face with a piece of charcoal.
Ephemera usually is, but the wind & passage of time will blow it away. We
cannot read it, yet, but their ancestors the Garamantians used Tifinargh before
the Phoenecians came.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">Gentle readers,
most scripts & most writing has been mostly used for ephemera, thank the
Lord. Just think, if all the drek of ages were to last for ever! If a
representative cross-sectione of the data backed up in Cloudland were
downloaded to stand testimony for us of the merit of our survival as a race,
woe, woe!</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">I think that
those who try to relate the megalithic builders to the Egyptians are gobsmacked
by any ancient building at all, & lump the lot together for simple - yes,
simple - wonder at the magnitude of their works. On the evidence of surviving structures
their techniques & cultures had nothing whatever in common. In my opinion,
it doesn't become an academic's professional dignity, least of all that of an
archaeologist, to take that option. </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">Apart from all
the above, I agree with Marcus, the written record is a manifestation of a
Third-Level Culture: Urbanisition, specialisation of crafts & an
established heirarchy. Under such conditions one needs to pass records between
three parties or more & store them in the short term.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal">yrs,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Mark</span><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:<span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"> </span><span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Theo
Homan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:theohoman@yahoo.com">theohoman@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Culture" 2010.09.01 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span class="gi"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From: Jonny
Meibohm <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</span></a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Subject: LL-L "Culture" </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: navy;">[...]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: navy;">I think that each culture which ever has experienced the power of
written letters should have been eager to learn and create the same for its own
purposes.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: navy;">But we have no relics in Europe
which could point to any writing until the Romans conquered (and later
christianized) this region. The Germanic Runic alphabet is dated younger,
already influenced by Latin types and never had been an important medium for
'daily' communication. I've never heard about a Celtic writing system as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: navy;"><span style=""> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style="color: navy;">What could be the reasons for this belated evolution? Perhaps
because there was no necessity of any writing for a simply, small structured,
familiar society of hunters, herders and farmers, with no greater settlements
like there probably existed in Egypt, surely in Greece and Italy. Without
anything close to that what later was called "trading" and
"money"?!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: courier new,monospace;">[...]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hello,<br>
<br>
Eeeeeh... when you write on sticks, there is not much change for the writings
to be preserved.<br>
But, besides, we can point to the ten thousands of runic messages of all kind
[also of scabrous nature] found on the bottom of the harbour
of Bergen in Norway: the
soil was 'sour'.<br>
<br>
And I may point to the fact that up until the 1950's there were still Swedish
farmers who used the runic system for their written communication between each
other.<br>
<br>
It is my firm belief that the Old-Germanics [like other Indo-Europeans] did not
want to use a writing system, as written texts could lead to all kinds of
forgery.<br>
<br>
But: Speak up in the meeting of the elders, and everybody can hear it, and hear
whether you are trying to change the texts.<br>
<br>
And indeed, we have overdoses of old acts, proceedings and ordinances that are
forgeries, just intended to defraud.<br>
<br>
So are the words of Theo who never forges or lies.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://vr.gr/" target="_blank">vr.gr</a>.<br>
Theo Homan</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:<span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"> </span><span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Sandy
Fleming</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk">sandy@fleimin.demon.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Culture" 2010.09.01 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span class="gi"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">> From: Jonny Meibohm
<<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>><br>
><br>
> Subject:LL-L "Culture"</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>
Exaggeratedly expressed: written letters are the very beginning of the<br>
> evil ;-)!?<br>
<br>
I think that in these days of widespread literacy achieved by early<br>
teaching it's hard for us to realise just how difficult reading and<br>
writing really is.<br>
<br>
Groups tend to start writing in some sort of picture form or ideographs,<br>
which suggests to me that the fact that a word splits into a stream<br>
consisting of a small set of different sounds isn't as obvious as it<br>
seems to we who are so used to the idea.<br>
<br>
A system of ideographs, if widely accepted, does eventually start to<br>
develop some phonetic features, perhaps initially through rebus writing,<br>
but the ideographic side of the writing doesn't seem to disappear<br>
because of that.<br>
<br>
One idea is that the alphabet arose (as a betagam) when the Pheonicians<br>
started using Egyptian writing: since they spoke a Semitic language they<br>
felt no need to write vowels so it was simpler for them to develop the<br>
sort of writing system we have today. Then classical Greek and Latin<br>
being rather short of vowels, it wasn't too hard for them to take a<br>
passing betagam and augment it into an alphabet by adding a few extra<br>
letters for the vowels.<br>
<br>
This sort of theory suggests that an alphabet is a difficult concept<br>
that will only develop under auspicious circumstances, which would mean<br>
that most other alphabets were developed from the original, or at least<br>
from the idea of it.<br>
<br>
I think this is quite a believable idea, that an alphabet develops first<br>
in phonetically simpler (or simplifiable) languages, and later in<br>
languages which need more letters. Look at the way it was widely<br>
believed that Slavonic languages couldn't be written, until Saint Cyril<br>
finally took the sledgehammer approach and borrowed letters from both<br>
Greek and Latin alphabets and made up a few of his own until he had<br>
enough.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that hieroglyphic systems generally only survive with a<br>
strong government and civil service (or priesthood, perhaps) to support<br>
it, and an empire that continues unbroken (China,
Egypt,
Maya).<br>
<br>
In earlier centuries (eg the Middle Ages), reading was much less common<br>
and reading silently almost unheard of, which goes to show how much we<br>
take for granted these days. On the other hand, there are many claims of<br>
of people these days who can read just by flipping quickly through the<br>
pages of a book, so we may not be at the end of the process yet!<br>
<br>
In Victorian times, reading was very much a social event, with one<br>
person in the family reading to the rest, but perhaps that was only due<br>
to lack of other entertainments. I remember when I was a child older<br>
adults used to often read out loud, but not the younger. Is this still<br>
true? Being deaf now, I can't tell!<br>
<br>
I also remember that older adults liked to be read to rather than read,<br>
even when they could read, although this may just have been an<br>
unwillingness to look for their reading glasses!<br>
<br>
There was also a certain unwillingness, as you mention, for people to<br>
approve of reading. I was often criticised by grandparents and old<br>
uncles and aunts for "always having my nose in a book". Also for<br>
climbing trees, running, shouting, laughing, getting lost for hours on<br>
end, watching TV and generally not being Presbyterian enough.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Sandy Fleming<br>
<a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
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