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<b>L O W L A N D S - L - 16 September 2010 - Volume 02<br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mike Morgan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language learning" 2010.09.16 (01) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Paul wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">I Finland
a girl was being mildly mocking about the fact that she could speak English but
I knew no Finnish ("English people really struggle with languages don't
you?").</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">On the other hand, when I
was first in the Netherlands
some 25 years ago and learning Dutch, many Amsterdam acquaintances' response was:
"Why bother? We all speak English..."<br>
<br>
Though, of course, they didn't.... <br>
<br>
That same response is not uncommon in many countries ... and sometimes as a
field linguist who enjoys learning languages as well, it CAN be frustrating....<br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
>From my current, temporary location back in Japan, it seems that the
"ineptitude" at learning languages that seems to charcterize this
country and the country of my birth is by and large nurture not nature; in
America people by and large are not interested in foreign languages (because we
are "taught" "who needs them?! everyone speaks -- or ought to
speak! -- American"), while in Japan much more complicated
socio-educational issues seem to be at play (including the thinking that if you
CAN learn a foreign language then you MUST not be really be Japanese -- or
maybe suffer from a brain defect or gene mutation --, because Japanese brains
are actually put together differently than those of foreigners).<br>
<br>
As Sandy said in a posting a few days ago, learning a language is NOT all about
how difficult it is, but rather maybe more about interest and motivation
(though in that context the discussion was about choice of PARTICULAR
languages), and it would also seem that there is an important element as to
whether the society (and therfore the person socialized in that society)
"feels" that learning languageS / being bilingual is
"normal"/"to be expected".<br>
<br>
Deaf Japanese are always astonished when it is pointed out to them that the
"average educated" European Deaf person (Finnish say, or Belgian) is
competent in at least 4 languages (Finnish Sign Language, International Sign
and/or some other country's sign language, written Finnish, AND written
English. Not because they MUST (nobody I know of forces Finnish Deaf to travel
abroad), but because it is just "the way things are done". NOT
knowing English doesn't keep Japanese (hearing or Deaf) from traveling
overseas; on the other hand, it seems that the "normalcy" of
traveling overseas (or at least over the Baltic Sea) makes learning English
natural fro Scandinavians (and one expects the same "thinking"
applies to most north Europeans -- south Europeans being maybe a bit more like
Americans and Japanese ... and British)<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>mwm || U C > || Mike Morgan<br>
===============================<br>
<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>linguist temporarily at large<br>
soon(?) @ IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India<br>
<span style=""> </span>... sometime in THIS incarnation anyway<br>
<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>... inshallah</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mark Dreyer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L
"Language learning" 2010.09.16 (01) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Dear Paul:</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL-L "Language
learning"</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You Wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">All very good points, especially about the perceived "special
language ability" of other countries. That idea even exists in those
countries sometimes: I Finland a girl was being mildly mocking about the fact
that she could speak English but I knew no Finnish ("English people really
struggle with languages don't you?"). I answered her in Afrikaans. The
realisation was like watching a lightbulb go on.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Seconded. Good for you,
& your Afrikaans! So van die os op die esel, het jy nie al opgemerk nie hoe
die Taal lig werp op veral die oudhede van
Engels (onder ander Dietse tale)? My ondervinding as 'n kind was hoe help
Afrikaans met die spel van Engels, waar die uitspraak van die hedendaagse taal
geen luidraad gee, hoegenaamd. Ek veronderstel natuurlik 'n mate van die einste
voordeel van sommer enige verwante taal in parallel met die wat jy klaar onder
die blad het, maar Afrikaans... dra die eienskap tot 'n merkwaardige mate.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek sê nie Afrikaans moet 'n
Wêreldwye gemenetaal word nie, en ek wil dit ook nie hê nie, maar mynsinsiens
is dit 'n uitstekende tweede-taal fondament van 'n derde, vierde, en nog meer.
Maar, met wederdenke, is nie alle tallleer so nie?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Nou ja, vir die enkeltaliges
in ons geselskap (die skraaaale minderheid) laat ek in Engels oortolk.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Gesekondeer. Mooi skoot, u
en u Afrikaans! Off the ox onto the ass as it were, have you not noticed how
the Taal casts light on particularly the
archaisms of English (among other Anglo-Saxon languages)? My experience as a
child was how Afrikaans helped me with the spelling of English, where the
pronunciation of the language as it is today gives no clue whatever. I assume
naturally a degree of the same advantage with really any related tongue in
parallel with one you already have by heart, but Afrikaans... carries this
quality to a notable degree.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I do not say that Afrikaans
should become a Worldwide common language, nor would I want that, but in my
opinion it is an outstanding second-language foundation for a third, fourth,
even more. However on thinking it over isn't that the case with all language
study?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">While we're off the subject,
when are you denizens of the sceptered archipelago, that other Eden, that
demi-paradise, going to point out to smarmy foreigners that yours is not a
monoglot heritage? Count with me, English, Scots, Welsh, Gaelic, Erse, Manx
(still, I hope), Cornish (I anticipate), Norman-French (of the Channel Isles),
Norn (does it still exist?), Romany & how much more?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Groete,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Mark.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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