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L O W L A N D S - L - 01 December 2010 - Volume 02<br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Mark Dreyer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.11.30 (03) [AF-EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Dear Marcus:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">At said:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Marcus, you make a grave
error. Afrikaans emerged (was born) in the south-west tip of Africa
during the late 1600's. Although its forbears were Germanic languages and very
much so from the lowland countries, it is an African language. Unfortunately,
because of black politics, it has now also become a major language in diaspora.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Your response:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I don't think I made an
error. Afrikaans sure is African in the geographical sense (that's why it has
the name it has). But from it's linguistic ancestry and from it's
socio-economic position it's different from languages like Zulu, Sotho etc.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">My input:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The term 'African' is also
only African in the geographical sense. So am I. That's geography for you. I
imagine you mean to illuminate the point that Afrikaans is qualitatively
different from, say, isiZulu in a way that it does not differ from some
European languages. Alright. isiZulu equally differs from, say, Vasikela in a
way that it does not from the Bantu languages of the Great
Lakes region, but it is a Southern African language all the same.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">For linguistic
considerations you would auger in on linguistic terminology, & for
socio-economic issues, socio-economic terminology. Just bear in mind that
people on the ground may act in accordance with geographical issues, knowing
nothing whatever of linguistics & caring less.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I hear you on the subject of
victimisation, notably of minorities that can be identified in terms of
language use. However something disturbs me about your approach to a solution.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Your problem is two-fold.
Imprimus: Too many thoughtless people imagine a problem can be solved by
enactment - let such-&-such be done. The World doesn't work that way. There
is a limit of resources. You suggest money be taken from black parents to
subsidise schools they do not want. Now, it's their money; they earned it,
& what right have you to take it away for sometthing you want but not them?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span>Secundus: You suggest
Whites should uplift Blacks: Who? How? Who can be spared from their own daily
grind to help someone else right. Who will support him in this noble
enterprise, for he has dependants to support? Marcus, this country has never
had enough people, or enough craftsmen, to solve all the problems in it.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You blame us for not
uplifting the Blacks. How dare you! We were never more than enough to just make
it through the day, the season, the years to put bread on the table. When we
had a lot of slack, like diamonds & gold, the British came & took it.
What did <strong>they</strong> do to
uplift the locals? I know what we did & I am proud of what we did. I expect
that this statement astonishes you you. I have been abroad & I am well
aware of the profound depth & incredible breadth of ignorance about South Africa -
at the academic level. You may offer yourself, & by all means, feel free.
Others might not <strong>be</strong> so
free. & they may have honest priorities supervening your notions (at a safe
distance) of their rightious duty.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Do not fall in the trap,
Marcus, immortalised in the joke about the castaway economist. He finds a can
of beans & his solution? "<strong>Assume</strong>
a can opener".</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Regarding your PS: Thanks to
the years of Apartheid's Upliftment, Bantu languages are doing well. It is only
this short patch of post-1994 public-school education (for Whites & Blacks)
that has gone to Hell in a handbasket. I hope it ends soon.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">You could run a technically
sophisticated society with a rich culture in all our official languages. There
is no lack of recources, access & use in TV, Newspapers, Internet &
Cell-phone services. Book production is not on a par with for example the UK, but within
the limits of a small population, & a smaller population of maniac readers
(like myself) I suppose it's adequate. Quality is iffy - low on TV (State
Enterprise), high wrt books & writers with private enterprise & input,
medium with newspapers, commercially driven. Internet is at International
standard.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Yrs,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Mark</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
Language politics<br>
<br>
Folks,<br>
<br>
Genealogy is only one facet of several. If you go by genealogy, most of the
Bantu language varieties of Southern Africa are not South African but were
introduced through migrations from Eastern and Central Africa,
and this relatively recently. Many of them have substrata from indigenous
Khoi-San languages (as is evident in click sounds, for instance). This and many
other features attest to adaptation to South African conditions, and few people
would dispute that they are South African languages.<br>
<br>
What makes Afrikaans so different? Is it because its roots are in Europe and it is seen as a “White” language (although a
high percentage of its native speakers are not “White”)? Irrespective of what
its early roots were, Afrikaans has uniquely and under various influences
developed in Southern Africa for a good number
of centuries. This is why I personally consider it an African language that stands
with one leg in our old Lowlands.<br>
<br>
Would I consider American English an American language and Australian English and Australian language? To some, a lesser, degree,
because the vast majority of their influences come not from indigenous languages but
from the languages of European immigrants.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: dealangeam <<a href="mailto:atdelange@iburst.co.za">atdelange@iburst.co.za</a>></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: LL_L "Language politics" [AF_EN]</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek dink dat die onderwerp ‘Taal politiek’ baie gevaarlik is omdat dit so
maklik in politiekery kan
ontaard. Politiek gaan oor mag en wel daardie mag om ander mense te dwing om
aan ‘n groepie mense se begeertes te voldoen.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Die Afrikaanse woorde vir Engels se “politic(s)” val in twee groepe
uiteen: (1) verstandig, beskaafd, kundig, .... (2) moedswillig, geslepe, slu,
.... Dit verduidelik waarom politiek edel of vieslik kan wees.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ons beleef hier in Suid Afrika sedert 1992 (“Die Nuwe Suid Afrika”) ‘n verskriklike
toename in misdaad, iets veel erger as die vorige 350jaar. Baie mense probeer
die redes vir dit te vind. Soos ek voorheen geskryf het, word Apartheid die
meeste voorgehou as die grond oorsaak.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Dit is bog. Apartheid as politieke beleid het maar 50 jaar gelewe. Voor
dit was apartheid reeds daar in die vorm van klasse skeiding. Die koloniale
magte het dit deeglik bedryf, eers die Hollanders en toe die Engelse. (In
Namibië was dit die Duitsers!) Al die inheemse volke, bruin, swart en wit (die
Afrikaners) het daaronder gelei. Daarom lyk dit asof kolonialisme die
onderliggende oorsaak is. Maar dit is ook bog.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Iets wat na my wete nog nooit ge-eien is in die misdaad hier ter lande
(tans verskriklik) is die oorwegendste kenmerk van al die misdaad. Ek kan met werker-klere (en
nie opgetof soos ‘n toeris of sakemens nie - wees gewaarsku) in enige misdaad
gebied rondloop met ‘n dik, verslete boek (wat vir my kosbaar is oor wat daarin
geskryf is) en niks sal met my gebeur nie. Wie wil so ‘n dik verslete boek
besit?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Dit is nou meer as 10jaar wat ek misdaad berigte (koerante, tydskrifte,
radio, televisie) aandagtig bestudeer. Mense word aangerand of vermoor vir
stoflike dinge soos geld, juwele, selfone, seks. Wanneer dit wel oor geeslike
dinge gaan, word dit gedryf deur wraak, vrees, selfsug, sensasie en ander
afbrekende idees.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">As ‘n mens hierdie mense se taalgebruik nagaan, is die meeste van hulle
(maak nie saak watter tale hulle praat nie) se taalgebruik slordig, platvloers
en verpes met leenwoorde.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek is oortuig dat selfrespek begin met sorgsame taalgebruik. Die taal
help dan om die denke te verskerp, verdiep en verbrei in alles wat daardie
persoon aanpak. Selfrespek kan
met geen geld gekoop word nie. Selfrespek kan ook nie verbeter word deur geduring geld
te bestee nie. Die gesegde ‘geld is die wortel van alle kwaad’ is nog altyd
waar.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Suid Afrika se onderwys stelsel het in die laaste 10 jaar van Apartheid
agteruit begin gaan. Na 1992 het dit sneller verval. Tans word die meeste geld
(geheel en per kop) bestee van alle lande in Afrika. Nogtans presteer plaaslike
swartes van die swakste in Afrika in internasionale kompetisies vir kundige
vakke en kunste. Dis mos Apartheid se skuld.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Die ANC is tans in groot beroering. Meeste van sy leiers het sy edel doelstellings
vervang met ‘n sug na geld. Dit alles met Mandela wat nog leef, maar veels te
oud is om hulle nog in die bek te ruk. Nou wil hulle ‘n wet op geheimhouding
invoer om hulle misdade in die donker te hou.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek lees gereeld koerante van meeste kontinente op die web. Een ding word
vir my baie duidelik. Sosiale verval word al hoe erger in al daardie lande wat
dink dit sal nooit plaaslik gebeur nie. Nasionalisme begin weer op die
voorgrond tree. Dit is jammer want dit is ‘n gedrog van respek vir eie kultuur
en ander kulture.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Al die geld in die wêreld gaan nie Laag-Saksies regruk nie. Dit is die
mense wat dit praat wat dit sal regkry. Hulle moet daarna streef om die taal
sorgsaam te gebruik in plaas van om geld na te jaag soos die geval was
gedurende die Hansa tydperk.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hulle sal veral moet poog om die eeue oue politieke grense tussen Nederland en Duitsland te
oorbrug. Die vernederlandisering en verduitsering kan
opgehef word deur sorgvuldig te soek na ou Laag-Saksiese woorde wat
gemeenskaplik kan
wees. Afrikaans het die voorbeeld gestel. Eers die verhollandsering en toe die
verengelsering het Afrikaans groot skade aangedoen.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Die Tweede Vryheidsoorlog (1899-1902) het ‘n reuse rol gespeel. Dit het
meerderheid Afrikaners geweldig verarm. Beloftes van geld (Engeland, Nederland en die res van
Europa) het beloftes gebly. Afrikaanse denkers op alle gebiede van die lewe het
begin om Afrikaans te bevry van Hollandse en Engelse oorheersing. Hulle het dit
dikwels gedoen deur pynlike stoflike opofferings.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hier het die generaals van die oorlog hulle inbors begin toon. Hulle het
besef dat Afrikaans in ‘n geeslike oorlog betrokke is waarin dit nie mag
verloor nie. As kind het ek my verwonder aan die keurige gebruik van Afrikaans.
Op skool is ek gehelp om self Afrikaans keurig te gebruik. As student op
die universiteit van Potchefstroom het ek die voorreg gehad om lesings te kry
by dosente wat onverskrokke Afrikaans gehelp het om volwasse te word in elke
geleerde rigting.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek mis daardie gees intens op die LL poslys. Ek is amper 15 jaar lid van
die poslys. Laag-Saksies (Platduits, Agterhoeks, wat dit ookal genoem word)
suig aan die droogste speen. Daar word min gedoen om Laag-Saksies te herstel
tot die glorie voordat Karel die “Grote” met sy onderdrukking begin het. Dit kan gedoen word, maar
beslis nie vir geld nie.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ek wonder hoeveel laaglanders is bewus daarvan dat Afrikaanse (let wel,
nie Engelse) plekname geteiken word om swart name te kry. Daar word verskeie
redes aangevoer, onder andere regstelling van Apartheid se gevolge. Dit kos
biljoene Rand om dit te doen, geld wat veel
beter bestee kon word.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Een rede word selde genoem. Ek wil dit graag uitlig. ‘n Gebrek aan
respek vir Afrikaans en selfs ‘n minagting daarvan. Die taal moet gestraf word.
Bid jou dit aan. Die gevolge is terug-snydend - ‘n gebrek aan respek en selfs
‘n minagting van swart mense se eie tale. Wat wel in daardie tale gedoen word,
is gewoonlik vir geldelike gewin. Bitter min word gedoen vir geeslike
verryking. Ek wens dit was ‘n liegstorie.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Skryf asseblief veel meer in al die “dialekte” van Laag-Saksies. Ek vind
dit baie leersaam en geniet dit geweldig. Probeer asseblief om waar moontlik,
die dialek wat jy in skryf ‘n naam te gee. Dit help my om ‘n oorsig te kry van
die mengelmoes waarin Laag-Saksies tans is.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Betrek julle kinders daarby. In die geval van Afrikaans het dit drie
geslagte geneem om dit van eeue se onderdrukking te bevry. Toe kom die
giftigste van alle eise - gee aan ander die reg om in jou stoflike rykdom te
deel sonder om respek te toon vir die geeslike rykdom wat die dryfkrag was.
Binne een geslag het dit Afrikaans reuse skade aangedoen. </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hierdie gif is stadig besig om die voorste lande in die wêreld op hulle
knieë te dwing. Pasop vir politici wat hierdie gif uitdeel - hulle lieg vir eie
gewin sonder om te skroom. Die valse beloftes van kapitalisme (Adam Smith) en
materialisme (Karl Marx) begin nou die giftige vrugte dra waarteen daar meer as
‘n eeu gewaarsku is. Hierdie giftige vrugte verdwelm eers voordat dit doodmaak.
Dit maak van politici die gevaarlikste soort dwelmbase wat ‘n mens kan kry. Hulle het in
die 20ste eeu bykans ‘n duisend tale laat sterf. Hulle is roekeloos.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Mooi loop.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">At de Lange</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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