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L O W L A N D S - L - 02 December 2010 - Volume 04<br>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike Morgan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Goeie naand!<br>
<br>
Elsie (<<a href="mailto:ezinsser@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">ezinsser@mweb.co.za</a>>)
het gevra:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">I like to sit and watch to improve my limited knowledge (had a few
youth friends who signed) and often wonder about how similar (or not) SA sign
language was compared to, say, Indian or US sign language? </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Well, I would say I could
follow maybe half of what was said on TV (and much more than half in my few
person-to-person encounters with SASL... natural, given that Deaf are good at
adjusting to non-native signers and negotiating meaning, etc). And I would say
that the DTV (deaf signers) were easier to follow than the hearing sign
language interpreters on the newscasts (though the ones on eTV seemed to be a
bit more American Sign Language influenced).<br>
<br>
As for what sort of language SASL is, I quote Helen Morgan (no relation!):<br clear="all">
<i>"Since there is little historical evidence, it is presumed that South
African Sign Language has a mixture of the Irish influence from the Dominican
Irish nuns, and British influence as well as the American influence..."</i>
(Morgans, Helen (1999), <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/10228199908566144" target="_blank"><i>Where did South African Sign Language Originate?</i></a>,
Language Matters, <b>30</b>, South Africa: Routledge Informa Ltd,
pp. 53--58)<br>
<br>
And "presumed" is the operative word... <br>
<br>
Note that BOTH American and Irish SL had at their beginnings a heavy input from
french SL, whereas British SL is "completely" different ... and
Indian Sign language is even more completely different still!<br>
<br>
mwm || U C > ||
Mike (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">====================================================<br>
soon @ IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India, Allah, YHWH & Ganesh willing<br>
====================================================<br>
<b>Sadang kayu di rimbo tak samo tinggi, kok kunun
manusia.</b></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Mike Morgan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">addenda:<br>
<br>
Ethnologue has THiS to say about SASL:<br>
<br>
"[sfs] 12,100 deaf persons including 6,000 Black, 2,000 English white,
2,000 Afrikaans white, 1,200 Coloured, 900 Indian (VanCleve 1986). <i><a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/introduction.asp#dialect" target="_blank" title="Information about the names of dialects of the language, including information on lexical similarity and intelligibility with other varieties if available">Dialects</a>:</i>
The North British sign system was used for the deaf in white English-speaking
families. In 1881 a school for Afrikaans-speaking families began using British
Sign Language [<a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=bfi" target="_blank">bfi</a>]. Several dialects are used unofficially in different
schools. 9 sign language systems, 60% related to British or Australian sign
languages [<a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=asf" target="_blank">asf</a>], few to American Sign Language [<a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ase" target="_blank">ase</a>]."</p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Marcus Buck</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: "Elsie
Zinsser" <<a href="mailto:ezinsser@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">ezinsser@mweb.co.za</a>></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Marcus, I think you are being indoctrinated into believing that
‘white race’ equals ‘wealthy person’. Is that not racist? </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Whites are not automatically
rich and Blacks are not automatically poor. But there's a relevant statistical
correlation between race and wealth. That's a fact.<br>
<br>
By the way, I have never used the word "upliftment". I'm not like:
"White man, go rescue the Black man, for he cannot rescue himself."
This thread started with a newspaper article about how English puts pressure on
Afrikaans in South African education. I asked a question about the role of the
Black languages in that context and Mark Dreyer answered with a rant about how
everything worsened in the education system since the end of Apartheid.
According to Mark's assessment most Black language schools are shitty and Black
parents therefore send their children to Afrikaans and English schools. And
that's what I tried to target. Improve the Black language schools.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck</p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Mike Wintzer</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:k9mw@yahoo.com">k9mw@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Language politics" 2010.12.01 (04) [AF-EN]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Hi Elsie, Marcus, Mark, Roger
and all you others,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Just to let you know that
although (until now) a</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">silent observer, I am
following your discussions</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">with fascination.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">And by the way, my knowledge
of Dutch allows</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">me to read Afrikaans without
problems </span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">(an observation which other
speakers of Dutch </span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">have no doubt made over and
over).</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Keep up the good posting!</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Mike Wintzer</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"> </span></p>
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