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L O W L A N D S - L - 15 December 2010 - Volume 01<br>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Theo Homan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:theohoman@yahoo.com">theohoman@yahoo.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.12.14 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Perhaps it goes back to an attempt at avoiding “splitting verbs.”
But it is also used with simple verbs. <br>
<br>
Perhaps its use in interrogative constructions is old enough that the Saxon
settlers in Britain
took it over with them.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
Or perhaps it has to do with Celtic.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://vr.gr/" target="_blank">vr.gr</a>.<br>
Theo Homan</p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">M.-L. Lessing</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2010.12.14 (02) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;"><br></span></p><p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Dear Jacqueline,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">the use of "doon"
is really a bit special. Of course we use it in the sense of
"stecken" orr "setzen, stellen, legen": "Do dat mal op
den Disch!" "Do dat in't Schapp!" But I would use it in this
sense in High German too: "Tu das in den Schrank!" This is not the
special Platt use. In Platt we use it when we want to emphasize something:
"I do doch keen Kinner nich slaan!" (here also with double negation)
orr "Solang du di ni benehmen deist, snack ik nich mit di!" But also
when something is done slowly and with consideration: "Bilütten dä se ehr
Stebel uttrecken." I think it is also used when a slightly different
expression would contain "kann": "Ik kann/do dat nich
verstahn" (can be emphasized another time: "Ik kann un kann dat nich
verstahn", "He deit un deit dat nich henkriegen").</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">But in fact it is nearly
impossible for me to explain when a Platt speaker feels drawn to use this
construction. When I wrote the mail you quote, I unconsciously felt that saying
"Wenn ik dat rechterhand baven ingeev" would be half an
Hochdeutschizismus and not really Platt. The use of "doon" is
something like indulging in the main verb, like a bird flying another
circle above his prey before it grips or like a cat playing with it :-) Ik höp,
dat du dat verstahn deist :-) </span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Hartlich </span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Marlou / Hamborg</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From:
"Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong" <<a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</span></a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Subject: LL-L
"Language varieties" 2010.12.13 (01) [EN-NDS]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Dear Lowlanders,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">In a conversation on this blog between Marlou Lessing and Marcus Buck,
Marlou uses the expression “Wenn ik dat rechterhand baven ingeven do”. This
fascinates me. The totally different way in which English on the one hand and
Dutch and German on the other use the verb “ to do” and doen/tun. </span></p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
Grammar</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Marlou:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: times new roman,serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: navy;">When I wrote the mail you quote, I unconsciously felt that saying
"Wenn ik dat rechterhand baven ingeev" would be half an
Hochdeutschizismus and not really Platt.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Not using auxiliary <i>doon</i>
this way can be perfectly authentic within the language, while using it adds emphasis to the main verb
and is often just a stylistic choice.<br>
<br>
It is probably true to say that not using it where it seems called for may
me due to German influence or interference. On the other hand, I have seen and heard
it <i>over</i>used by some, probably as a matter of overindulgence in this “Platt”
feature.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</p>
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