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L O W L A N D S - L - 04 January 2011 - Volume 02<br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">M.-L. Lessing</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2011.01.04 (01) [EN-FY-NDS]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Dear Henno & all,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">now I am really daring: Can
it be that your "kust" has anything to do with the german word
"Küste" = coast(line)? A coast is of course a visible difference...
but there is rarely anything to "choose". But "Köste", an
old expression for a feast, is related via "Kost" with "to
choose", true?</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">All the deep relationships of
words that I have learned in this discussion is something I will never forget
(provided God spares me from dementia in old age)! It is really like a
landscape of language opening with new prospects after every bend of the path.
Thank you all.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Marlou</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From: Henno
Brandsma <<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl" target="_blank"><span style="color: navy;">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</span></a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Subject: LL-L
"Etymology" 2011.01.03 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">In Dutch we have the expression "te kust en te keur gaan"
and this contains 2 old Ablaut variants of "*keuZan"</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------<br>
<br>
From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Heiko Evermann</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heiko.evermann@gmx.de">heiko.evermann@gmx.de</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Etymology" 2011.01.04 (01) [EN-FY-NDS]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">> The r-z change is due
to an old phenomenon known as "Grammatischer Wechsel" in
Indo-European linguistics.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">This is something really
funny. I have already seen that in Latin<br>
where e.g. an old Latin "esam" (I was) became "eram".<br>
<br>
But:<br>
This change is hard for me to understand. A change from t to tz to s (Hochdeutsche
Lautverschiebung) is easy to follow, especially with the aspirated t that we
have here in North Germany. But from s/z to r
or back is quite a stretch.<br>
<br>
Can anyone make that shift plausible to me?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
Heiko Evermann<br>
Hamburg</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: Etymology</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Heiko, you wrote:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">This change is hard for me to understand. A change from t to tz to
s (Hochdeutsche Lautverschiebung) is easy to follow, especially with the
aspirated t that we have here in North Germany.
But from s/z to r or back is quite a stretch.<br style="">
<br style="">
</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I’ve been wondering this for
a long time and have come up with the following observations and thoughts.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ul style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><li>First of all, let’s assume
that we are talking about apical /r/ [r] (produced with the tip of the tongue).<br><br></li><li>Secondly, let’s bear in mind
that the r/z alternation we are talking about it very old. It seems to have
taken place before and just after Germanic languages began to branch off
proto-Germanic.<br><br></li><li>Both /r/ and /z/ are
alveolar; the position of the tongue is similar in pronouncing them.<br><br></li><li>Both /r/ and /z/ are voiced.<br><br></li><li>In certain West Slavic
languages, palatalization of /r/ (i.e. /r/ pronounced before a front vowel like
/i/ and /e/) led to the creation of an allophone that survives in Czech, there
is now considered a phoneme and is represented by the letter <b>ř</b> (as in Dvořák).
It tends to be perceived as [ʒ] (as in French <b><i>j</i></b><i>our</i>) and its
devoiced allophone tends to be perceived as [ʃ] (as in <b>sh</b>oe).
However, it is accompanied by a trill as in [r]. It’s Polish counterpart is
spelled <b>rz</b>, but the pronunciation of it is now [ʒ]
and its devoiced for is pronounced [ʃ]. In Russian and Ukrainian equivalent is a
palatalized /r/ [r]: [rʲ]. Upper Sorbian, too, uses the letter <b>ř</b> but
now pronounces it [ʃ] (which corresponds to <b>ŕ</b> ([rʲ]
> [ʀʲ] in Lower Sorbian).<br>
E.g. ‘river bank’:<br><br></li><ul><li>Czech: břeh řeky</li><li>Slovak: breh rieky</li><li>Polish: brzeg rzeką</li><li>Upper Sorbian: brjóh rěcy</li><li>Lower Sorbian: brjog rěcy</li><li>Ukrainian: bereh ričky (берег
річки)</li><li>Russian: bereg reki (берег
реки)<br><br></li></ul><li>Some language varieties,
such as those of Turkish and of Latin American Castilian (Spanish), devoice
final /r/. The resulting sound is not very much unlike that of Czech <b>ř</b>.<br><br></li><li>Language varieties that (at
least natively) lack the sound /š/ [ʃ] tend to pronounce /s/ with the tip of the tongue
farther back, which results in a sound in between [s]
and [ʃ]. This is possible because /s/ and /š/ do not stand
in opposition. Nowadays you can hear this in many dialects of Castilian of
Spain, in Dutch and in Finnish, for example. Apparently there are indications
that in Old (High) German /s/ (which had no /š/ counterpart) was farther back
as described above and that for a good while this sound stood in contrast to a more
frontal variety of /s/ that was the result of the shift <i>–tt</i> > <i>–zz</i>,
as in Modern German <i>besser</i> and <i>weiß</i>.</li></ul>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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