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L O W L A N D S - L - 28 February 2011 - Volume 04<br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Kevin & Cheryl Caldwell</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net">kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.07 (02) [EN]</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The word
“separate” can sometimes be used the same way.</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">- I spoke with
him on five separate occasions.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kevin Caldwell</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Laurel</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">, MD</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: <span class="gd"><span style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">M.-L. Lessing</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.07 (02) [EN]</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">But the languages *are*
different! There *is* reason for a quiet little expression of astonishment at
the four languages of Switzerland.
Who will grudge this little by-word of wonder? And maybe the four occasions
when you "spoke with him" were different as well? Not four times the
same occasion? Each one remarkable in itself? I see no problem with this use of
words. It surely emphasizes the complexity, often heaviness, of how things go
on ("I had to speak to four different people to get four different
forms/stamps/permissions...", just think of german bureaucracy!), but
things *are* complex, and there ist difference everywhere. I think difference
is rather underrepresented generally. I don't mind to have it a little overrepresented
now and then.</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Hartlich!</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: times new roman,serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Marlou</span></p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102); margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Grammar</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102); margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal">But what about the now
frequent colloquial use of “different” where it is redundant?</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102); margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal">* There are
four different languages in Switzerland.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102); margin-left: 40px;" class="MsoNormal">* I spoke with
him on five different occasions.</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Grammar</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Kevin and Marlou.<br>
<br>
Nice point about “separate” in place of “different,” Kevin.<br>
<br>
In any case, in terms of grammar at least, it should be possible to formulate
the opposites thusly:</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">* There are four identical
languages in Switzerland.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">* I spoke with him on five identical
occasions.</p>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The first seems quite
ungrammatical to me. As Luc already mentioned, where you have more than one
language there is diversity. </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">It would be different if you said:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">* There are four very different
languages in Switzerland.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (This would be understood as "of very different types/genealogies.")</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"I spoke with him on five identical
occasions" seems marginally grammatical, albeit awkward, to me in that
it could denote “same kinds of occasions.”</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Consider further examples randomly picked off the Internet:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
* Three Different Directions</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (<> Three Identical Directions?)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <a href="http://www.threedifferentdirections.com/">www.threedifferentdirections.com/</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
* Five Different Reasons to Ride a Bicycle</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (<> Five Identical Reasons to Ride
a Bicycle?)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <a href="http://www.bicyclinglife.com/newsandviews/5_Different_Reasons.htm">www.bicyclinglife.com/newsandviews/5_Different_Reasons.htm</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
* Ten different expressions</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> (<> Ten identical expressions?)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <a href="http://www.thehindu.com">www.thehindu.com</a> › Arts › Art</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
It seems to me that the “gratuitous” use of “different” with numbers represents
a transition into idiomatic form.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Seattle, USA</span></p>
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