<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" align="center">=====================================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 15 April 2011 - Volume 03<br>
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<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color:#790619">Mike Morgan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:<span class="gi"> LL-L "History" 2011.04.14 (03) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From: Hellinckx Luc <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:navy">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</span></a>></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Some countries behave like fire, whatever that doesn't agree, gets
burnt. You create a lot of enemies that way. That's when you need water to put
out the fire ;=)</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><br>
Ouch! I kinda have to agree with Luc... France IS getting a bit too big for
its breeches ;-)<br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">mwm || U C > || mike ||
мика || माईक || マイク || மாய்க் (aka Dr Michael W
Morgan)<br>
===========================================================<br>
Senior Consultant<br>
BA in Applied Sign Language Studies (BAASLS)<br>
Indira Gandhi National Open Univeristy<br>
New Delhi, India<br>
===========================================================</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;">"The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never
make up their minds to be good or evil." (Hannah Arendt)</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;">"When good people in any country cease their vigilance and
struggle, then evil men prevail." (Pearl S. Buck)</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;">----------</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color:#5B1094">Paul Finlow-Bates</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:<span class="gi"> LL-L "History" 2011.04.14 (04) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="http://uk.mc286.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:navy">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Subject:
History </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Dear
Lowlanders, </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> ..... </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">(This
article) asserts that recent findings point toward there having been one proto
language, i.e. one ancestor of all of today’s languages. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: navy;">Mind you, this is by most considered fringe science. </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ruehlen and Greenberg have
been postulating this for years, with a classification system that ultimately
unites all the world language groups. </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I
can't see why a single proto language should be "fringe
science". Unless you believe that different languages were created
independently, Tower
of Babel fashion, I can't
envisage any mechanism of language evolution that <em>doesn't</em> involve a single
proto-language. The alternative seems to me not just fringe science, but
no science at all. </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">However,
whether we can actually determine the family tree, and even reconstruct parts
of that language (as Ruehlen and Greenberg claim) is another question. </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Paul
</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Derby </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">England</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color:#00681C">Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:<span class="gi"> LL-L Resources</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Some language related
articles on the BBC website:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Language universality idea
tested with biology method<br>
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13049700" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13049700</a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'Oldest English words'
identified <br>
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7911645.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7911645.stm</a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Monkeys recognise 'bad
grammar' <br>
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8139322.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8139322.stm</a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Are dying languages worth
saving?<br>
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11304255" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11304255</a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">'Language gene' effects
explored <br>
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8355541.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8355541.stm</a></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Roger</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
"dealangeam" <<a href="mailto:atdelange@iburst.co.za">atdelange@iburst.co.za</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:<span class="gi"> </span>LL-L "Language varieties" [EN]</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Dear Lowlanders,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Ron wrote:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">“Personally I am not in
favor of constructed languages, despite their supposed neutrality. Esperanto
and Interlingua and even Mondlango (whose creators are Chinese) are anything
but neutral; they are based on dominant European languages. Similarly, Volapük
is based primarily on German, English and French and in addition uses sounds
(/ü/, /ö/) that are difficult for speakers of many other languages to
pronounce.”</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">There are about twenty
constructed languages intended as a lingua franca which I know of. Whatever
their good and bad features, none of them have become a lingua franca like
English or Spanish. Even English or Spanish can not function as a lingua franca
in all countries of the world. Neither will Chinese Mandarin be bale to do it.
It is as if the tower
of Babel stands in the
way of this ideal.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Biological evolution (BE) is
now generally accepted, except by religious fundamentalists. Thus they have
become the object of scorn of most modern thinkers. However, one should never
conflate the theory of something with the thing itself. The theory of BE with Darwin as its founding
father is not a fundamentalist theory like the electromagnetic theory of
Maxwell. The reason is that the latter rests upon empirical, fundamental and
universal laws. These laws can be tested at any time and any place in the
universe.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Some biologists have pointed
out some strange properties of BE as a phenomenon and not a theory. Since these
properties cannot be derived from the Darwinian theory, those who pointed them
out have almost become outcasts in the biological community. I will give two
examples:</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">(1) Dollo’s observation -
Nature never backtracks its steps, neither follows the same routes twice [=
irreversible].</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">(2) Gould’s observation -
Nature changes very slowly even for long periods of time until a rapid
speciation occurs [= punctuated equilibrium]</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Several linguists have tried
to apply the Darwinian theory to Language Evolution (LE). It never had any
significant application. Yet LE begs for some theory. The fact is that the
“time tree of speciation” of biological species and lingual “species” are
extremely similar, The important difference is that the biological time tree is
some 2,000,000,000 years old while the lingual time tree is only about 20,000
years old. Thus they differ by a factor 100,000</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The curious thing is that
whereas Darwin’s
theory of evolution applies only to BE, both Dollo’s and Gould’s observations
also apply to LE. I believe that it is for these observations that a lingua
franca (omniglot) will never become real. Even reducing it to an omniglot for a
language family will not do.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">For example, take the
omniglot “Folkspraak” for all Germanic languages. After studying some of it,
finding it easy to learn, it surprised me that it never took favour among
Germanic speaking peoples.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I think the solution to
communicate in any two languages. is way by of translation through IT
evolution. Meet and extend evolution by evolution. Should it become acutely
important, it will take some 20 years to become available on cell phones of a
complexity like the Black Berry. A nice name for them would be “omniglot
phones”. This name can be translated into Afrikaans by “volkspraak fone”</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Best wishes</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">At de Lange.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
"dealangeam" <<a href="mailto:atdelange@iburst.co.za">atdelange@iburst.co.za</a>></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:<span class="gi"> </span>LL_L "Language varieties" [EN]</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Dear Lowlanders,</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I have a question which
occupied my mind since the 1980's.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Why did Low-Saxon
(Nieder-Deutsch) diversified since the 1000's without maintaining one dialect
as the common standard?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I can propose several
reasons, but none of them seems to be a fundamental reason.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Here in South Africa
the Bantu languages diversified into two branches: the Sotho languages and the
Nguni languages with Sotho and Zulu slowly emerging since the 1850's as some
common standard of each branch. The branching was caused by the Great Drakensberg
Mountain range some
thousand kilometers long from north to south.. The Sotho languages occur in the
western, inland side of it and the Nguni languages to the eastern, coastal side
of it. In other words, the divisor was a geographical feature restricting movement
of people across it.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">What was the divisor between
the Netherlands
and German dialects of Low-Saxon? Geographical, political or another reason?
When did it began to happen?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">The Dutchfication of the
western dialects and the Germanfication of the eastern dialects of Low-Saxon
worries me. Is it really the case? It seems to me as if people drift towards
Dutch or German in the absence of a common standard of Low-Saxon. Might it be
the translation of the Bible into Hollands
or German? What will the consequence be after a century or two? The extinction
of speaking any Low-Saxon dialect? That will be horrible.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">It seems that my mother
tongue Afrikaans will suffer the same fate. Since the 1900's most Afrikaans
people resisted English Anglisation. It was a passion because of the vile
conduct of the British empire in Southern Africa.
The Afrikaners (from North European descent) resisted it like a disease. But
because or Apartheid (1948-1990) in which Afrikaans became the major language
of communication, they had no guts to resist this Anglisation after 1994 when
the New South Africa was created.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Trying to resist this
Anglisation is considered as keeping Apartheid alive. As if any language itself
can cause a vile political system. But should it be the case, then it means
that we are slaves of the language we “prefer” to speak rather having any
choice. Is this really the case?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I am convinced that
Afrikaans had two parents - Hollands
and Low- Saxon. But i am not a professional linguist. Most of the recognised
linguists consider Afrikaans as a stabilised creole of Dutch. The reason for my
passion in the lowland languages is a “coffee tabel book” which i studied in
1967. The focus was on the region of Hait-Habo close to the Danish border. That
night the pictures spoke to me like a text book. I have not experienced it
before and only once afterwards. Pictures talking?</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Best wishes</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">At de Lange</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">----------</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="http://uk.mc286.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:
none">sassisch@yahoo.com</span></a>> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Subject: Language history</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Hi, At!</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">I assume you are
specifically referring to Low Saxon, whose ancestor is Old Saxon. (“Low German”
is ambiguous in that it denotes a <i>branch</i> of languages: Low Saxon and Low
Frankish, and in Germany the label <i>Plattdeutsch</i> or <i>Niederdeutsch</i>
is used for any Low Saxon and Low Frankish variety that happens to be use on
German soil.)</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">On the Netherlands
side of the border, Low Saxon dialects came to be overshadowed and colored by
the nationally predominant Dutch language. Until recently being considered
“dialect,” the Low Saxon language was excluded from formal education.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">On the German side of the
border, the language, which had lost its predominance with the demise of the
Hanseatic Trading League and came under dominance of German-speaking power
that had moved in from the south, also came to be labeled “dialect,” was
excluded from formal education and took on more and more German color.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">By denying it language status,
the two national powers prevented maintenance of linguistic and ethnic Low Saxon
consciousness and cohesion, and this includes the creation of a standard variety and a standard
orthography.</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal">Seattle, USA</p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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