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L O W L A N D S - L - 27 April 2011 - Volume 01<br>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From:
<span class="gd"><span style="color:#790619">Mike Morgan</span></span><span class="gi"> </span><span class="go"><<a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a>></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Lowlands-L List <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">
<br>
This applies for instance in the Turkic languages and in Japanese. For
instance, Turkish uses an “inferential” tense marked by the suffix /–mVş–/ (→ –<i>miş</i>–
~ –<i>müş</i>– ~ –<i>mış</i>–~ –<i>muş</i>–); e.g., ...</p></blockquote></div><div><br>My
first exposure to the concept of evidentiality was Bulgarian... which
probably borrowed the category from Turkish (although it used/s purely
Slavic forms to express it, employing Slavic -l- past participles, with
or without auxilary "to be") as opposed to imperfect or perfect tense).
Wikipedia has a fairly good treatment of this (and also the entire
verbal system of Bulgarian -- whcih is perhaps the most complex of any
modern Slavic language: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_verbs" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_verbs</a>)<br>
<br>As for what the origin of the ENGLISH newspaper headline version ("Ron
Paul <u>kicks</u> off exploratory committee; News at 11"), I would
ASSUME it has it roots in the common use of the present tense in
narrating past events ... to make the story more "vivid".<a href="?shva=1#inbox/12f946f02faeb917" target="_blank">https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/12f946f02faeb917</a><br clear="all">
</div></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">AND, of course, if one looks at the ENglish "simple
present" as REALLY being an aorist (indeterminate as to tense or aspect)
in general, then the semantics is also easy to explain....</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
mwm || U C > || mike || мика || माईक || マイク || மாய்க் (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Senior Consultant</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">BA in Applied Sign Language Studies (BAASLS)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Indira Gandhi National Open Univeristy</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">New Delhi, India</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"Too
often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we
excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered
dreams of others. ... [T]here is another kind of violence, slower but
just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is
the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow
decay." (Bobby Kennedy, 5 April 1968)<br><br>----------<br><br></span><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#c88900">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><span class="go"></span></p>
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]</span></p><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hi Ron,</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I guess we construct the inferential, at least in English: "they say that..", "It's been said that..." etc.</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Wracking my brains, but I can't think of any other use of that
"present in the past" tense, except for headlines. Even in newspapers,
the article following the headline always reverts to a past tense:</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"Clegg Attacks No camp in AV Campaign"</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, today attack<u>ed</u> what he called "Scaremongering" in the campaign against Alternative Voting (AV)....</div>
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Odd really. Maybe it makes the headline seem more immediate?</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Paul</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Derby</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">England<br><br>----------<br><br><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">Heiko Evermann</span> <span class="go"><<a href="mailto:heiko.evermann@gmx.de">heiko.evermann@gmx.de</a>></span></span><span class="gI"><span class="go"></span></span><span class="go"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Subject:
<span class="gi">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]</span></p>
<br>
Dear Ron,<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Among the world’s languages there are those whose grammars allow or require<br>
> the speaker to use specific grammatical devices (tenses, modes, moods,<br>
> voices or aspects) that indicate second-hand knowledge. In other words, in<br>
> reporting an event that you did not witness yourself you use a grammatical<br>
> form that differs from the one you use to report an event of which you have<br>
> first-hand knowledge.<br>
</div>...<br>
<div class="im">> The inferential tense is widely used in news reporting, except in cases in<br>
> which a writer has first-hand knowledge. Use of this tense is mandatory in<br>
> narratives such as fairytales.<br>
><br>
> I can’t think of anything equivalent in the Lowlands languages nor in the<br>
> Germanic branch generally. But I wonder if any of you can come up with<br>
> something.<br>
</div>Well, second hand knowledge ist expressed by indirect speech, which<br>
in the case of German is marked with a tense of its own: Konjunktiv.<br>
It is used in formal writing and it is common in newspapers, at least<br>
in traditional newspapers. As far as I remember, BILD does not use<br>
it. (Besides: An urban legend states that in former times it was<br>
called BILD-Zeitung, but they had to drop "Zeitung", because they<br>
aren't.)<br>
So in written language it is:<br>
Das Wirtschaftsministerium teilte mit, die wirtschaftliche Lage HABE<br>
sich verbessert.<br>
<br>
In more colloquial language it would be:<br>
Das Wirtschaftsministerium<br>
teilte mit, die Lage HAT sich verbessert.<br>
<br>
If you want to express doubt, you could also write:<br>
Das Wirtschaftsministerium teilte mit, die Lage HÄTTE sich verbessert.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Heiko Evermann</font></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: <a href="mailto:mike.keach@gmail.com">mike.keach@gmail.com</a></span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:hannehinz@t-online.de" target="_blank"></a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im">Subject: LL-L re: Ron's Grammer</div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I think such usage as you cite from the news media can be dated back to
the time of Chicago mobsters if not later to the 2nd World War. And: if
you want original perpetrators, look no farther than Wm. Randolph Hearst
and Walter Winchell. It's clearly a marketing ploy to indicate that the
station or newspaper is instantly reporting "BREAKING" news.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Over time this "New" Flash Voice, if you will, has become a standard
form of news delivery. I haven't ever heard it in common spoken
vernacular. It's strictly a marquee/paperboy form of an announcement to
catch one's attention and, hopefully, encourage you to buy a paper or
lure sponsors to underwrite your station because you're obviously on top
of 'things' as they happen.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
"Hurry, Hurry: Read All About It !!!"</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ad nauseum . . .</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Alles beste,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
~Mike in Tampadorf</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Hannelore Hinz </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:hannehinz@t-online.de" target="_blank"><hannehinz@t-online.de></a><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="im">
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.26 (04) [EN]<br>
<br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Leiw' Lowlanners,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Ron schreew: </span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#3366ff">Clearly, all these events
happened in the past, and this is so stated within the<div class="im"><br>
actual texts of the respective articles.<br>
Is this title-specific style unique?<br>
What might be its origin?<br>
</div><font color="#000000"><br>
Dat is ein hoge Kunst, de nich so licht to maken is. Man weit
je nienich in'n Vörut wat so passieren kann.<br>
1. Man kann nah, also oewer ein' Saak, woans sick dat taudragen
hett, vermellen, un<br>
2. oewer de, de noch stattfinn', all in'n Vörut plant sünd.<br>
3. un de 'echten' Live-Reportagen glieksen wiesen.<br>
<br>
Dat is binah so, as bi de Wäder-Reporters, vörher weiten's dat
nich so recht, un later ... dat kennen wi je. <br>
<br>
Künn je sien, wi finn'n 'n Weg, wat tau maken sien künn:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live%C3%BCbertragung" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liveübertragung</a><br>
<br>
Hartlich.<br>
<br>
Hanne</font></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </p>
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