<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id=":z5" class="ii gt"><div id=":z4"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>
<div>
<div><div><div>
<div>
<div><div>
<div><div><div>
<div>
<div><div><div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font size="2">==============================</font><font size="2">=======================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 08 May 2011 - Volume 01<br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a>
</font><font size="2"> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</span></a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</span></a><br>
==============================</font><font size="2">=======================</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#008391">Sandy Fleming</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:fleemin@live.co.uk">fleemin@live.co.uk</a></span></span></p>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.29 (03) [EN]</span><span></span><br><br>> From: <span><span style="color:rgb(91, 16, 148)">Sandy Fleming</span> <span><<a href="mailto:fleemin@live.co.uk" target="_blank">fleemin@live.co.uk</a>></span></span><span></span><br>
> Subject: <span>LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.29 (02) [EN]</span>
<br><div><div>
<br>>> From: <span><span style="color:rgb(91, 16, 148)">Pat Barrett</span> <span><<a href="mailto:pbarrett@cox.net" target="_blank">pbarrett@cox.net</a>></span></span><br>>> Subject: <span>LL-L "Grammar" 2011.04.28 (06) [EN]</span></div>
<div>
<br><div>><font style="font-size:10pt" size="2">> The use of -s in other than 3rd person singular
present tense verbs is a characteristic of certain English dialects. All persons
have -s. </font></div><br></div>> Memory isn't serving me too well on this
but I think it's in Berkshire or thereabouts that it's all -s. There's
somewhere else (Norwich?) where there are no present tense endings.<br><br>I've
been trying to find this amongst my books. Peter Trudgill's "Dialects"
lists the East Anglian dialect (eg Norwich) as having no present tense
endings at all:<br><br>I sing<br>We sing<br>You sing<br>He/She/It sing<br>They sing<br><br>He then says that Berkshire dialects have the present tense ending for all persons:<br><br>I sings<br>
We sings<br>
You sings<br>
He/She/It sings<br>
They sings<br>
<br>
Sandy Fleming<br><a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a><br><br>----------<br><br><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a></span></span></p>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.05.07 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Ron, Nice piece of music you got there!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">‘It
dawned upon me’ that in Dutch a poetic way to say “This day daws” is;
“Het daget in den Oosten”. I think however that that is a pat
expression. However you can also say “ het begint my te dagen” = ‘I am
beginning to see the light’ as ‘I am starting to understand something’.
So then the question becomes were does the “n” in dawn come from.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Have
a nice weekend. I am still hoping that spring finally will arrive. I am
getting fed-up with wearing Yeager underwear underneath my sweats.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Jacqueline BdJ</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle USA</span></p>
<br><span>----------<br><br></span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#790619">Sandy Fleming</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:fleemin@live.co.uk">fleemin@live.co.uk</a></span></span></p>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.05.07 (01) [EN]<br>
<br>
</span>
<div class="im"><p>> From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject: Grammar</p><div>
<p>> Dear Lowlanders,</p>
<p> > Having just listened to the song “This Day Daws” I am reminded
that in the Tudor era, English—passing from its Late Middle stage and entering
its Early Modern stage—retained syntactical and morphological characteristics that
continue in its sister languages till this day but are quite foreign to the ears of today's English speakers:</p>
<p>> Modern: This day is dawning and I must go home.<br>> <b>Tudor: This day daws and I must home go.</b></p></div></div><font style="font-size:10pt" size="2">Alexander Montgomiew writes, to the tune of Tuttie Taitie (the same tune as Scots Wha Hae):<br>
<br></font>Hey! now the day dawis;<br>
The jolly cock crawis;<br>
Now shroudis the shawis<br>
Thro' Nature anon.<br>
The thissel-cock cryis<br>
On lovers wha lyis:<br>
Now skaillis the skyis;<br>
The nicht is neir gone.<br><br>And Burns writes (to the same tune!):<br><br>Landlady, coont the lawin,<br>The day is near the dawin,<br>Ye're aa blinnd drunk boys,<br>An I'm jolly fou.<br> Hey! Tuttie taitie,<br>
Hoo! Tuttie taitie,<br> Hey, tuttie taitie,<br>
Wha's fou nou?<br><br>But considering it's the same tune I
suspect Burns was aware of the Montgomerie version and my have lifted
the older form from that to get his rhyme?<br><br>The derivation of "dawn" from "dawin" looks likely.<br><br>Sandy Fleming<br><a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a><br>
<span><br>----------<br><br></span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#c88900">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a></span></span></p>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Grammar" 2011.05.07 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><div>There has been a tendency in English to hark back to older forms
for poetic or dramatic effect, and this seems to have become quite
strong in Tudor times. Spenser's "Faerie Queen" published in the 1590s
is a classic example, and though many analysts say that the amount
of archaic language is exaggerated, it is claerly not the day-to-day
speech of the late 16th C. The King James "Authorised Version" of the
Bible is another case in point; produced in the early 17thC, it
deliberately uses language that was old-fashioned by that time to give
it a sense of age and authority.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It also seems that English tolerates, even likes, non-standard word
orders in songs, especially traditionals: "A-hunting we will go!" etc.
Much harder to get any rhythm into "we'll go hunting".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Even much more recently, in the 60's, Tony Hazzard wrote the song
"Ha-ha Said the Clown" (a hit for Manfred Mann in the UK at the time).
Not "The Clown Said Ha-ha", which is normal English usage.</div>
<div> </div>
Paul <br><br>----------<br><br>From: Hannelore Hinz <a href="mailto:hannehinz@t-online.de" target="_blank"><hannehinz@t-online.de></a><br><div class="im">
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.05.07 (01) [EN]<br>
<br></div>
Hallo Ron un all' Lowlanners,<br>
<br>
as Muskant hal ick nu deiper ut, wieldat mi Song un Wüür bannig
intressieren.<br>
<br>
Kiekt mal in bi:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.factsandarts.com/music/anon-this-day-awes/" target="_blank">http://www.factsandarts.com/music/anon-this-day-awes/</a><br>
<br>
Wat klingt dat Leed so wunnerschön, dat röögt de Harten an.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.songtextemania.com/this_day_dawns_songtext_morbid_remains.html" target="_blank">http://www.songtextemania.com/this_day_dawns_songtext_morbid_remains.html</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.rcmscerly.tk/fayrfax-manuscript/comment-page-1" target="_blank">http://www.rcmscerly.tk/fayrfax-manuscript/comment-page-1</a><br>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000">Kiekt nah bi: '<b>2 Responses to 'Fayrfax
Manuscript'</b> "This day day daws..."</font><br>
<br>
Mi is upfollen, dat de Texten nich all' gliek sünd.<br>
<br>
Un nu up Mäkelborgsch:<br>
Diss Dag fangt an un ick möt nah Hus/Huus gahn.<br>
Diss Dag röppt all vör Dau un Daak un ick möt nah Hus gahn. <br>
Diss Dag waakt up un ick möt nah Hus gahn.<br>
Diss Dag grient tiedig un ick möt nah Hus gahn.<br>
De/diss Dag rüst' sick un ick möt nah Hus gahn.<br>
De/diss Dag steiht up un ick möt nah Hus gahn.<br>
<br>
Un ick bün all lang' tau Hus, von hier<br>
mien best' Gräuten.<br>
<br>
Hartlich.<br>
Hanne<br>
<br>
Man gaud, ick bün all tau Hus,<br>
un von hier best' Gräuten.<br>
<br>
Hartlich.<br>
Hanne<br><br>----------<br><br>From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Grammar<br><br>Thanks, everybody!<br><br>Hanne, thanks for the links! Tthe lyrics of the second link are those of a different, more recently written song.<br><br>So it turns out that it is not "go" but "gone":<p style="margin-left: 40px;">
This day day daws, <br> This gentill day day dawes, <br> This gentill day dawes, <br> And I must home gone. </p><div style="margin-left: 40px;">
</div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">In a glorius garden grene <br> Sawe I syttyng a comly quene <br> Among the flouris that fressh byn. <br> She gaderd a floure and set betwene; <br> The lyly-whighte rose methought I sawe, <br>
The lyly-whighte rose methought I sawe <br> And ever she sang: </p><div style="margin-left: 40px;">
</div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">In that garden be flouris of hewe: <br> The gelofir gent, that she well knewe; <br> The Floure-de-luce she did on rewe, <br> And said, "The white rose is most trewe <br> This garden to rule be ryghtwis lawe." <br>
The lyly-whighte rose methought I sawe, <br> And evyr she sang. </p><br>So this "And I must home gone" is more similar to modern "I must be gone."<br><br><a href="http://www.factsandarts.com/music/anon-this-day-awes/">http://www.factsandarts.com/music/anon-this-day-awes/</a><br>
The singers use period pronunciation; e.g. "dawes" [daʊz], "gone" [gɔːn], "sawes" [saʊz], "methought" [meˈθɔʊxt].<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br><span><br></span></div>
<font size="2"><span></span></font><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font size="2">
==============================</font><font size="2">===========================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br>
<a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
</font><font size="2">
or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</a>
</font><font size="2">.<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</a>
</font><font size="2"><br>
==============================</font><font size="2">==============================</font><font size="2">===</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>