<div style="text-align: center"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">====================================================</font><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> L O W L A N D S - L - 03 July 2011 - Volume 01</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></font></div>
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<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=====================================================</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div>
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: Henno Brandsma <a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a></font><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.07.02 (02) [AF]</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: "dealangeam" <<a href="mailto:atdelange@iburst.co.za">atdelange@iburst.co.za</a>></font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" [AF]</font></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Beste Laaglanders,</font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Baie dankie vir Hellinckx, Joachim, Ron en Piet se bydraes oor die onderwerp. </font></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px">
<font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In Afrikaans het ons die woord "baie" in die sin van “many, much” (Engels), “veel” (Nederlands). “sehr” (Duits) en “meget” (Deens).</font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Op skool in die 1950's het ons geleer “baie” kom van die Maleisiese woord "banyak". Die Malleiers is na die Kaap ingevoer as slawe. Na die 1750's het “banyak” verander tot "banje" en later na "baie".</font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I believe this is still the current thinking, yes.</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In 1973 het ek 'n belangstelling (voorliefde) ontwikkel vir Agterhoeks, </font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Agterhoeks ( I presume you mean the dialect of the Dutch region "Achterhoek") is indeed a variety of Low Saxon.</font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I wouldn't go so far as to name all Low Saxon varieties after it...</font></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Nederduits of Laagsaksies, wat 'n mens dit ookal wil noem. In 1984 het ek tot die ontdekking gekom dat Afrikaans nie 'n vereenvoudige weergawe (pidgen) van Hollands is soos meeste taalkundiges beweer nie, maar 'n ontluiking (“emergence”, “opkomst”, “entstehung”) uit Hollands (Frankonies) en Nederduits (Laagsaksies). Almal het gedink ek is gek.</font></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I see very little that is specifically "Nederduits" in Afrikaans, I must say. I would love to see some examples of words in Afrikaans </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">that have to come from Nederduits and not "Hollandic" (in a wide sense) and later more Standard Dutch (with more Brabantic words as well,</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">due to the use of the Dutch Bible and Dutch being the official language for a long time). </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In 1986 lees ek vir die eerste keer in Friesies (een van die Agterhoekse tale) die woord "bannig". </font></font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">"Bannich". It's not a very common word. And "Friesies" is definitely not a form of Low Saxon, but a separate branch of West Germanic.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Later loop ek dit ook raak in Stellingswerf, Gronigens, Twents en en selfs Brabanties. Die woord "baie" het dus 'n Nederduitse oorsprong, maar is deur Maleisies omvorm tot "baie".</font></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Do you have any evidence of the fact that the Malay word derives from a West Germanic source? It might have a good internal etymology within its family of languages, I'm no expert of Melanesian. Maybe Ron knows? The link does not seem very likely to me, really. Like I said, the word is not very common, and it means "busy", and derives from "bân", band (like your hands our bound due to being busy). No relation to "much", or "a lot".</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Vandag is "baie" een van die mees gebruikste woorde in Afrikaans sowel as al die 13 ander tale van Suid Afrika. Dit is net jammer dat sprekers van die laaglandse tale nie kop of stert daarvan kan uitmaak nie. Ek wens ons kan die woord uitvoer na julle toe.</font></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Mooi loop</font></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">At de Lange</font></font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Henno Brandsma</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">----------</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></font><div>
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Subject: Etymology</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Lowlanders,</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Like Henno, I have yet to see some kind of evidence to show that Low Saxon played a real part in the evolution of Afrikaans, although apparently Low Saxon speakers from what are now the Netherlands and Germany did emigrate to Southern Africa.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Years ago we talked about the strong possibility of Zealandic (</font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Zeelands</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">, a close relative of Western Flemish) being a significant ancestor of Afrikaans. And, of course, literary Dutch acted as an umbrella language with significant influence.</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Henno:</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px">
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</font><font color="#000066"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Do you have any evidence of the fact that the Malay word derives from a West Germanic source? It might have a good internal etymology within its family of languages, I'm no expert of Melanesian. Maybe Ron knows?</font></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Malay, as well as Sundanese and Javanese, the other two most likely languages spoken by early "Malays" on the Cape, belong to the </font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayic_languages"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Malayic</font></a><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> group of the </font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayo-Polynesian_languages"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Malayo-Polynesian</font></a><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> branch of the </font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_languages"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Austronesian</font></a><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> language family.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Please see my introductions:</font><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/malay-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/malay-info.php</a></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div></div><div style="margin-left: 40px"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian-info.php</a></font></div>
<div style="margin-left: 40px"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/sunda-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/sunda-info.php</a></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px">
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/jawa-info.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/jawa-info.php</a></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The </font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesian_languages"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Melanesian</font></a><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> branch, which some consider a tentative branch of Austronesian, are mostly spoken in </font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesia"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Melanesia</font></a><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">So far I have not tried to trace the etymology of Malay </font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">banyak</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> (Indonesian Malay ['baɲak̚], Malaysian Malay ['baɲək̚]) 'many', 'much', 'very'. (The Colonial Dutch spelling is </font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">banjak</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">. The </font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">-k</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> [</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
k̚
</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">] represents an unreleased [k] sound. Unreleased syllable-final stops are an areal feature of Eastern Asia, being predominant especially in China and Southeast Asia.</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">)</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In theory at least, suggesting that Afrikaans </font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">baie</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> comes from "Malay" </font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">banyak</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> or comes from "Lowlandic" </font><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">*</font></em><em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">bandig</font></em><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> seem equally "daring" in my opinion.</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Reinhard/Ron</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Seattle, USA</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">----------</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" <<a href="mailto:info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl">info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl</a>></font><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Subject: LL-L "Etymologie" bannich</font></div>
</div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Beste At & All,</font><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">About: bannich en baandig</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> In 1986 lees ek vir die eerste keer in Friesies (een van die Agterhoekse tale) die woord "bannig". Later loop ek dit ook raak in Stellingswerf, Gronigens, Twents en en selfs Brabanties. Die woord "baie" het dus 'n Nederduitse oorsprong, maar is deur Maleisies omvorm tot "baie". </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ik geloof dat hier meerdere woorden door elkaar gaan lopen. Volgens mijn gedachten is het zuid-Afrikaans 'baie' (veel, erg) rechtstreeks met de slaven uit Maleisië naar zuid-Afrika gekomen en heeft niets vandoen (of misschien via het Indo-Germaans, toch weer wel?) met het Fryske 'bannich' (drok dwaande) of het LS 'baandig' (drok doende) (Nl.: druk in de weer).</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Als het SA 'baie' via de slavenimport van het Maleise 'banyak' komt dan stel ik voor dat ons Fry 'bannich' en Stell. 'baandig' van het Midden-Hoog-Duuts bendec, bändig, bendig komen. Baie mooi is erg mooi, baie veel is erg veel. Bannich is aan de (lei)band gaan. Aan banden leggen en, aan de band leggen, is iemand beknotten in zijn vrijheid.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Bannigen heeft ook een verband met handigen: bijna niemand kan dat maar het bandigt / handigt hem wel.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Het Fry bannich en Stell. baandig (ook wel: banig, bandig en bannig) komt volgens mij van het 'aan de band' lopen, van zowel dieren als mensen. Aan de leiband lopen of aan de tijd gebonden zijn, verbasterd tot altijd druk bezig zijn. Dit 'aan de band lopen' komt ook meer overeen met de tegenstelling 'losbandig' (los van de band, vrijheid).</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ook bestaat er misschien nog verband met een 'baanderheer' (banjer) die soldaten onder eigen 'banier' naar het front mocht sturen en Stellingwervers zijn rond 1300 in de 'ban' gedaan door bisschop Guy van Utrecht. Als de ban over je was uitgesproken dan was je 'bannig' (buitengesloten).</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In het Oostends Woordenboek van onze goede vriend Roland Desnerck ten slotte vind ik het woord 'bann' (banen) voor: iemand een weg banen of een weg afzetten / afbakenen, en van rond 1403 een zegswijze van Oostende: "Dit zyn de niewe renten die men ghelt in t niewe cuergherechte in de twe ghebannen straten."</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Now hool ik op mit bannig wezen aans wor 'k ok nog gek en dat moet niet want gister hewwe grösmi'jd (tillewischen?) dat ik moet morgen in 't huj'...</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Piet Bult</font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="text-align: center"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=========================================================</font><div>
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