<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" id=":11v" class="ii gt"><div id=":11u"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="text-align:center">=====================================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 03 August 2011 - Volume 08<br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
- <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a><br>
=====================================================</div><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">Marcus Buck</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Literature" 2011.08.03 (07) [EN]</span><br><br><div class="im">
From: <span><span style="color:#5b1094">Mike
Morgan</span> <span><a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com" target="_blank">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a></span></span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
Subject: <span>LL-L
"Literature" 2011.08.03 (04)
[EN]</span><br>
<br>
Marcus writes:<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Sounds
very
interesting. A
bit _too_
interesting.
...
<div><br>
<div>
<div>To me the
only plausible
explanation is
that a written
account of the
Western
version of the
Nibelungs was
translated
into Russian
and it entered
Chuvash oral
tradition when
a Chuvash told
the story he
had read in a
book to his
fellow
Chuvashs.<br>
...<br>
And I also
find it odd
that if they
discovered the
connection in
1992, why is a
2011 book the
first time
this is
covered? I
tried to
google some of
the keywords
and it's all
related to the
book now
published.<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Well, scepticism is
healthy (although not
always encouraged)...<br>
<br>
However, if you go to the
site:<br>
<a href="http://chuvash.org/e/d090d0b2d0b0d0bbd0bbc483d18520d187d0b0d0bdc4952028d090d182d182d0b8d0bbd0bfd0b020d09ad180d0b8d0bcd0bad0b8d0bbd182d0b529" target="_blank">http://chuvash.org/e/d090d0b2d0b0d0bbd0bbc483d18520d187d0b0d0bdc4952028d090d182d182d0b8d0bbd0bfd0b020d09ad180d0b8d0bcd0bad0b8d0bbd182d0b529</a><br>
<br>
(having first brushed up
your Chuvash if it is,
like mine, a bit rusty and
never quite as good as my
Uyghur and Kazakh) you
will see a bit of the
background to the story of
the collection and
publication of the <b>Аттилпа
Кримкилте epos</b><br>
<br>
Seems in fact it was first
published in 1913, which
in my mind makes it
unlikely that it is a
Chuvash
translation/interpretation
of a Russian published
translation of a German
tale... but NOT
unreasonable that the tale
had migrated one way or
the otehr over the
centruries. And,
considering where Attila
came from (Pritsak,
Omeljan. 1982 "The Hunnic
Language of the Attila
Clan." <i>Har</i><i>vard
Ukrainian Studies</i>,
vol. 6, pp. 428-476
considers the name to be
from (Turkic) Bolgar,
which is in fact the
ancestor (or one of them)
of Chuvash), it seems just
as likely to me that it
migrated west as that it
migrated east.<br>
<br>
And, the text of the epos
itself is available (or
parts of it) at the same
site (the main index with
links to the first is at:<br>
<a href="http://chuvash.org/e/d090d182d182d0b8d0bbd0bfd0b020d09ad180d0b8d0bcd0bad0b8d0bbd182d0b5" target="_blank">http://chuvash.org/e/d090d182d182d0b8d0bbd0bfd0b020d09ad180d0b8d0bcd0bad0b8d0bbd182d0b5</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
But according to Wikipedia
<a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriemhild" target="_blank"><http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriemhild></a> Kriemhild is a
Germanic name. The real name of Attila's wife was Ildikó. That
indicates that the Chuvash got it from a Germanic source. I'm indeed
sceptical, but as I do not speak a single word Chuvash, I won't be
of much use solving the case of how the epos got to Chuvashia.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck<br><br>----------<br><p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From:
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
Subject:
Literature<br><br>OK, Marcus. I agree that this matter requires skepticism, but it also requires an open mind.<br><br>Kriem<b>hild</b> <> <b>Hild</b>iko (> Ildikó) ?<br><br>Wikipedia:<br><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Der Name ist zusammengesetzt aus zwei <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Althochdeutsche_Sprache" title="Althochdeutsche Sprache" class="mw-redirect">althochdeutschen</a> Bestandteilen: ahd. <i>grim</i> = Maske, Verkleidung und ahd. <i>hilt(j)a</i> = Held, Recke, Kämpe, Kämpfer. Der Name <i>Kriemhild</i> bedeutet folglich wörtlich übersetzt: <i>verkleideter Held</i>.<br>
</div><br>"Disguised/masked hero"? Why such a name for a woman?<br><br>Going out on a limb for the heck of it ... The Huns, like the Goths and others, at one time inhabited the Crimean Peninsula (<span class="lang" lang="uk">Крим</span><i> (</i><i>Krym)</i>). Besides from Crimean Turkic ("Crimean Tatar") <i>qrım</i> 'rock', the name is suspected to be derived from Mongolic and Turkic <i>kerim</i> 'fortress'.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br>
<br>
</div></div><div style="text-align:center">=========================================================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br>
<a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</a>.<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</a><br>
========================================================== </div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>