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L O W L A N D S - L - 19 August 2011 - Volume 02<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p>From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.08.9 (01) [EN]</span><br><span></span><br><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Henry, </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I think the question is: <u>do you say it</u>?
A child, or an infatuated youngster may say “ ik vind jou lief”, but “
ik houd van jou” is an entirely different kettle of fish; just like “je
t’aime” has a slightly different color to it than “I love you”. ( Om van
“Ich liebe dich” maar niet te spreken! ). I have a sneaky feeling that
people who are tied to the land, who are pragmatic do not say it, rather
they would show it by bringing their loved one a bunch of flowers,
building them a house or whistling at him/her in a special way, or even
getting her pregnant. Is that maybe the tone of “ le ton qui fait la
musique” of lowland languages? And no, I am not being flippant.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Jacqueline BdJ</span></p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Seattle Wa. USA <br>
</span> <br>----------<br><br>From: "Steven Hanson" <<a href="mailto:ammurit@gmail.com">ammurit@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.08.9 (01) [EN]<br><br><p class="MsoNormal"><span>While we’re at it, I’ve always wondered about
where the Dutch construction might have come from. Does it have to do
with holding someone in high (or rather, the highest possible) regard?
Or should a literal interpretation of ‘houden’ be placed aside?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Also,
while we’re at it, I want to say that I’ve seen or heard about another
form in Dutch involving a word…something like ‘verlieft’…which escapes
me at the moment. I’m curious as to the differences in meaning between
the two, and why it came to be that ‘houden van jou’ seems to have won
out.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span>From: Henry Pijffers <<a href="mailto:henry.pijffers@gmail.com" target="_blank">henry.pijffers@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<span>Subject: LL-L Love</span><br><span></span><br><span>How does one say "I love you" in Low Saxon? I've been wondering about</span><br><span>that for a while now.</span><br><span></span><br><span>In the Low Saxon I speak (Twente, Dutch side of the border), we don't</span><br>
<span>have a form similar to "I love you", "Ich liebe dich", "Je t'aime",</span><br><span>etc. We've addopted the Dutch format, "Ik hou van jou", so we say "Ik</span><br>
<span>hold' van (d)u".</span><br><span></span><br><span>How does one say "I love you" in for example North German Low Saxon?</span><br><span></span><br><span>regards,</span><br><span>Henry</span><br></div>
<i><font color="#7f003f"><br>----------<br><br></font></i>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Idiomatica<br><br>Hey, Steven!<br><br>My hunch is that Dutch <i>houden van ...</i> originally meant something like "to think highly of ..." or "to hold ... in high regard," that it transitioned to the sense of "to love ..." via the initial sense of "to like ...", i.e. that it started of as a "typically Lowlandic" understatement.<br>
<br>In Low Saxon of Germany you can say <font size="2"><i>Ik hold v<span>ẹ</span><span>ẹl </span></i></font><i>vun</i> ... {person/thing}, in German correspondingly <font size="2"><i>Ich halte v<span>ie</span><span>l </span></i></font><i>von</i> ... {person/thing} -- "I hold a lot of ... {person/thing}" -- in the sense of "I think highly of ..." or just "I like ... (a lot)".<br>
<br>Dutch <i>verlieft (in)</i>, like German <i>verliebt (in)</i>, means 'in love (with)', from the verbs <i>*verlieven</i> (defunct? > <i>verlieft worden</i>) and <i>sich</i> <i>verlieben</i> respectively 'to fall in love'. In some Low Saxon dialects of Germany you can say <i>sik (in ...) verleven</i>. But to me it seems idiomatically more authentic to say <i>sik (in ...) verkieken</i> (from the verb <i>kieken</i> 'to look'), or <i>sik (in ...) vernarren</i> (from the verb <i>narren</i> 'to fool' < nominal <i>Narr</i> 'fool'),<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br><br>
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