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L O W L A N D S - L - 20 August 2011 - Volume 01<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p>From: "Steven Hanson" <<a href="mailto:ammurit@gmail.com">ammurit@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.08.19 (02) [EN-NL]<br><span></span><br><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>The idea of
‘holding in high regard’ makes me think of Catalan, wherein one might
say ‘t’estimo’ for ‘I love you’. ‘Estimo’ makes me think of English
‘esteem’, which leads ‘holding someone in high esteem’, which brings me
back full circle to Dutch ‘houden van’. :-D</span></p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: Idiomatica</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Hey, Steven!</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">My hunch is that Dutch <i>houden van ...</i>
originally meant something like "to think highly of ..." or "to hold
... in high regard," that it transitioned to the sense of "to love ..."
via the initial sense of "to like ...", i.e. that it started of as a
"typically Lowlandic" understatement.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">In Low Saxon of Germany you can say </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Ik hold vẹẹl </span></i><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span>vun</span></i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> ... {person/thing}, in German correspondingly </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Ich halte viel </span></i><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span>von</span></i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
... {person/thing} -- "I hold a lot of ... {person/thing}" -- in the
sense of "I think highly of ..." or just "I like ... (a lot)".</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Dutch <i>verlieft (in)</i>, like German <i>verliebt (in)</i>, means 'in love (with)', from the verbs <i>*verlieven</i> (defunct? > <i>verlieft worden</i>) and <i>sich</i> <i>verlieben</i> respectively 'to fall in love'. In some Low Saxon dialects of Germany you can say <i>sik (in ...) verleven</i>. But to me it seems idiomatically more authentic to say <i>sik (in ...) verkieken</i> (from the verb <i>kieken</i> 'to look'), or <i>sik (in ...) vernarren</i> (from the verb <i>narren</i> 'to fool' < nominal <i>Narr</i> 'fool'),</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Regards,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Seattle, USA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span> <br>----------<br><br>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:roerd096@PLANET.NL">roerd096@PLANET.NL</a>><br>Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.08.9 (01) [EN]<br><br>Ah so it WAS silent here... I only follow the list via the archives, not
via email, so I thought maybe you hadn't have time to put the messages
in the archives.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I don't know either how one would say I love you in Low Saxon of the Netherlands. Just as Henry says,<br>
ik holle van ou / dij, seems a direct translation from Standard Dutch.<br>
<br>
Btw: in Belgian Dutch/Flemish, one hears very often: ik zie u graag,
lit: I'm seeing you with pleasure, meaning I love you/je t'aime. One can
also say: zie me graag! = love me!<br>
<br>
Ingmar<br>
<i><font color="#7f003f"><br>----------<br><br></font></i>From: <span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">M.-L. Lessing</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.08.19 (02) [EN-NL]</span><br><br><div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="4">I agree with Jacqueline, you rather avoid outspoken words, or
at most you say "Ik heff di geern" or "Ik kann di good lieden" or "Ik bün di
good". Understatement is the thing here :-) Imagine a little embarrassment with
it. Platt is not so plain and outspoken in delicate matters, nor are the
plattdüütsch people. In delicate matters they are delicate.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">Hartlich</font></div>
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<div><font size="4">Marlou</font></div><div class="im">
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<blockquote style="border-left:#000000 2px solid;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px" dir="ltr">
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From: <span><span style="color:#5b1094">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net" target="_blank">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a></span></span><br>Subject:
<span>LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.08.9 (01)
[EN]</span><br><span></span><br><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Henry, </span></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">I think the
question is: <u>do you say it</u>? A child, or an infatuated youngster may say
“ ik vind jou lief”, but “ ik houd van jou” is an entirely different kettle of
fish; just like “je t’aime” has a slightly different color to it than “I love
you”. ( Om van “Ich liebe dich” maar niet te spreken! ). I have a sneaky
feeling that people who are tied to the land, who are pragmatic do not say it,
rather they would show it by bringing their loved one a bunch of flowers,
building them a house or whistling at him/her in a special way, or even
getting her pregnant. Is that maybe the tone of “ le ton qui fait la musique”
of lowland languages? And no, I am not being
flippant.</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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