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<span style="font-size:10pt">=====================================================<br>
L O W L A N D S - L - 30 August 2011 - Volume 01<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="DE">From: </span><span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span><span class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2011.08.29 (06) [EN]<br>
<br>
</span>
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Steven Hanson beat me
to the dictionaries ( They are still under the blue tarp on my deck, but
give me a week and I will be in business again). The only word in Dutch
which I can think of is “boekweit” (buckwheat).
Jacqueline BdJ SeattleWA, USA </span> <span style="color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="DE">From: </span>"Steven Hanson" <<a href="mailto:ammurit@gmail.com" target="_blank">ammurit@gmail.com</a>><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span>LL-L "Etymology" 2009.08.29 (04) [EN-NL]</p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal">The Dutch form, <i>tarwe</i>, made me wonder if there’s something like ‘tarrow’ in English. It turns out that there is an English word, ‘tare’ (<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tare" target="_blank">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tare</a>), which may share its origin with the Dutch word. Here’s what the Online Etymology Dictionary has to say about it:</p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=tare" target="_blank">tare (1)</a> <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tare" title=""Look up tare at Dictionary.com" " target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img src="cid:image001.gif@01CC6694.58011280" alt="Look up tare at Dictionary.com" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.9134in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">"kind
of fodder plant, vetch," early 14c., perhaps cognate with M.Du. tarwe
"wheat," from P.Gmc. *tarwo, cognate with Bret. draok, Welsh drewg
"darnel," Skt. durva "a kind of millet grass," Gk. darata, daratos
"bread," Lith. dirva "a wheat-field." Used in 2nd Wyclif version (1388)
of Matt. xxiii:25 to render Gk. zizania as a weed among corn (earlier
darnel and cockle had been used in this place); hence figurative use for
"something noxious sown among something good" (1711).</p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=tare" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=tare</a></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal">Oddly enough, the Online Etymology Dictionary mentions a Middle Dutch form, <i>weit</i>, for wheat…where did it go?</p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wheat" target="_blank">wheat</a> <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wheat" title=""Look up wheat at Dictionary.com" " target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img src="cid:image001.gif@01CC6694.58011280" alt="Look up wheat at Dictionary.com" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.9134in; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">O.E.
hwæte "wheat," from P.Gmc. *khwaitijaz (cf. O.S. hweti, O.N. hveiti,
Norw. kveite, O.Fris. hwete, M.Du., Du. weit, O.H.G. weizzi, Ger.
Weizen, Goth. hvaiteis "wheat"), lit. "that which is white," from
*khwitaz-, the source of O.E. hwit (see <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=white" target="_blank">white</a>;
and cf. Welsh gwenith "wheat," related to gwenn "white"). The Old World
grain was introduced into New Spain in 1528. Wheaties, the cereal brand
name, was patented 1925.</p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wheat" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wheat</a></p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wheat" target="_blank"><br></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 53.76pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE">From: </span>"Stellingwerfs Eigen" <<a href="mailto:info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl" target="_blank">info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl</a>><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span>LL-L "Etymology"</p>
<p style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 53.76pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Dear Lowlanders,<br>
Eng.: wheat; Deutsch: weizen; LS: weit; but in Dutch: tarwe.<br>
Q: Dat 'tarwe', waar komt dat etymologisch (of onlogisch?) vandaan, en komt dat ergens anders ook voor bij Lowlanders?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 53.76pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Should it perhaps come from Scottisch..;-)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 53.76pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,</p>
<div style="margin-left: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Piet</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE">----------<br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="DE">From: </span><span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#00681c">Hellinckx Luc</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span><span class="gI">LL-L "Etymology"</span><span></span></p><br>Beste Steven & Piet,<br>
<br>
Just a quickie. These days, "tarwe" separates from "weit" roughly along
the Frankish/Saxon border. "Weit" does exist in the South and the West
too, but as far as I know only in a composite form like "boekweit" (>
boekwaa in Brabantish, as in "boekwaa-pap" (B), buckwheat (E),
Buchweizen (G)). The word tarwe is also used in our local name for
maize/corn, "Spaanse tarwe" (Spojnse terref).<br>
<br>
I think a few agricultural innovations may have mixed our vocabularies
up (cf. meaning of grain, corn, rye, spelt, haver vs. oats and weed >
tobacco > marihuana).<br>
<br>
Kind greetings,<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium</font><div>
<br>----------<br><br><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="DE">From: </span>"Peter Snepvangers" <<a href="mailto:snepvangers@optushome.com.au">snepvangers@optushome.com.au</a>><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span>LL-L "Etymology" 2011.08.29 (06) [EN]<span class="gI"><br><br></span><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px;"><font size="2">The Dutch form, <i>tarwe</i>, made me wonder if there’s
something like ‘tarrow’ in English. It turns out that there is an English
word, ‘tare’ (<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tare" target="_blank">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tare</a>), which may
share its origin with the Dutch word. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">Hello Steven and Piet,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">I have also often wondered why Dutch uses tarwe and not weit
for wheat (triticum). The Sanskrit for millet is durva while the Dutch word for
millet is gierst (hirse in German). </font></div>
<div><font size="2">The Limburgs word used for wheat is terf.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">I suppose the Proto Germanic tarwo (wherever that comes from)
is the source of the word.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Proto Germanic hwaitijaz seems to also be the source of wheat
(which is white) and an important grain alongside the Old Saxon
roggo.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">So why tarwe and not hwete or weit?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">Best regards from Sydney</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Peter Snepvangers</font></div>
<div><font size="2"><a href="mailto:snepvangers@optushome.com.au" target="_blank">snepvangers@optushome.com.au</a></font></div><br>----------<br><br><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="DE">From: </span><span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#790619"><a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span><span class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.08.29 (04) [EN-NL]<br><br></span><div class="im">From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" <<a href="mailto:info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl" target="_blank">info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl</a>><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"<br>
<br>
Dear Lowlanders,<br>
Eng.: wheat; Deutsch: weizen; LS: weit; but in Dutch: tarwe.<br>
Q: Dat 'tarwe', waar komt dat etymologisch (of onlogisch?) vandaan, en komt<br>
dat ergens anders ook voor bij Lowlanders?<br>
Should it perhaps come from Scottisch..;-)<br>
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,<br>
Piet Bult<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Etymologiebank has a collection of entries from different Dutch etymological dictionaries: <<a href="http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/tarwe" target="_blank">http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/tarwe</a>><br>
<br>
One of the entries says: "van Utrecht af oostwaarts kende men alleen het
woord weit. Dit laatste woord is nog gewoon in de Noordel. en
Oostelijke provincies tot aan Utrecht toe en in een streek langs de
Maas; overigens heerst tarwe."<br>
<br>
Apparently it was a solely Low Franconian word and not used by Saxons or
Upper Germans. But according to the Morfologische Atlas van de
Nederlandse Dialecten it is known today in Northeastern dialects too.
Seems to be a Netherlandism in Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands, I
never came across the word in any Low Saxon dialect of Germany. The
Middle Low German dictionary of Schiller-Lübben has an entry "terwe",
but also calls it "mehr niederl.".<br>
<br>
"Weit" survived in the word "boekweit". Regionally different words exist
for other sorts of crops too. The "dtv-Atlas der deutschen Sprache" has
maps for the different names of rye.<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck<br>
<br>----------<br><br><span style="font-size:10pt" lang="DE">From: </span><span class="gI"><span class="gD" style="color:#5b1094">Luc Vanbrabant</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:lucv32@gmail.com">lucv32@gmail.com</a></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span><span class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2009.08.29 (04) [EN-NL]<br><br></span><div id=":u7" class="ii gt"><div id=":u6"><h2 style="font-weight:normal"><font size="2">Dag Piet,</font></h2><h2><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Gevonden op <br>
</span></font></h2><cite>www.<b>etymologie</b><a href="http://bank.nl/trefwoord/" target="_blank">bank.nl/trefwoord/</a><b>tarwe</b></cite><span></span><br>
<br><h2><font size="2">tarwe (graangewas van het geslacht <i>Triticum</i>)</font></h2>
<h3><font size="2"><a name="132198468e48ab85_1321982a4a56977c_ewn"></a>M. Philippa e.a. (2003-2009) <i>Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands</i></font></h3>
<div><p><font size="2"><b>tarwe</b> <abbr title="zelfstandig naamwoord (substantief)">zn.</abbr> ‘graangewas van het geslacht <i>Triticum</i>’<br><abbr title="Oudnederlands (voor 1200)">Onl.</abbr> <i>tarwa</i> in het toponiem <i>Tarwedic</i>, letterlijk ‘tarwedijk’ (Zeeland) [1189; Künzel]; <abbr title="Middelnederlands (1200–1500)">mnl.</abbr> <i>tarwe</i><br>
<abbr title="Middelnederduits (1100–1500)">Mnd.</abbr> <i>terwe</i>, <i>tarwe</i> ‘tarwe’; <abbr title="Middelengels (1100–1500)">me.</abbr> <i>tare</i> ‘zaad van de wikke; wikke’ (<abbr title="Nieuwengels (na 1700)">ne.</abbr> <i>tare</i> ‘voederwikke; onkruid’); < <abbr title="Proto-Germaans">pgm.</abbr> <i>*tarwō-</i>.<br>
<abbr title="waarschijnlijk">Wrsch.</abbr> verwant met: Sanskrit <i>dū́rva-</i> ‘spelt’; Litouws <i>dirvà</i> ‘bouwland’; Russisch <i>derévnja</i><i>dravoca</i> ‘raaigras’; < <abbr title="Proto-Indo-Europees">pie.</abbr> <i>*dr(H)-ueh<sub>2</sub></i>, dat mogelijk is afgeleid van de wortel <i>*der-</i> ‘scheuren, barsten’ (LIV 119), zie → <b>teren</b>.<br>
Het Nederlandse woord werd <abbr title="oorspronkelijk(e)">oorspr.</abbr>
alleen gebruikt in het zuidelijke en het westelijke deel van het
Germaanse taalgebied. Elders in dat taalgebied is het gewone woord voor
‘tarwe’ → <b>weit</b> (Engels <i>wheat</i>, Duits <i>Weizen</i>, Fries <i>weet</i>, Zweeds <i>vete</i> enz.).</font> [1240; Bern.]. ‘dorp’ (< ‘bouwland’); Gallisch </p></div>
<h3><font size="2"><a name="132198468e48ab85_1321982a4a56977c_chrwb"></a>N. van der Sijs (2001), <i>Chronologisch Woordenboek</i></font></h3>
<div><p><font size="2"><b>tarwe*</b> graangewas 1189 [Claes]</font></p></div>
<h3><font size="2"><a name="132198468e48ab85_1321982a4a56977c_ewb"></a>P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), <i>Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek</i></font></h3>
<div><p><font size="2"><b>tarwe</b><abbr>*</abbr> [graangewas] {in de vroegere Zeeuwse plaatsnaam <i>Tarwedic</i> 1189, <i>ta(e)rwe, te(e)rwe</i><abbr title="vergelijk">vgl.</abbr> <b>litouws</b> <i>dirva</i> [zaadveld], <b>oudindisch</b> <i>dūrvā</i> [gierst], <b>latijn</b> <i>dravoca</i> [bolster] (uit het kelt.). Het <b>engels</b> <i>tare</i> [dravik] is vermoedelijk ontleend aan <b>middelnederlands</b><i>taerwe.</i></font> 1201-1250} </p>
</div>
<h3><font size="2"><a name="132198468e48ab85_1321982a4a56977c_new"></a>J. de Vries (1971), <i>Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek</i></font></h3>
<div><p><font size="2"><b>tarwe</b> znw. v., mnl. <i>tarwe</i>, <i>tarve</i>, <i>teerv</i> v., indien te vergelijken met on. <i>tare</i> ‘onkruid, wikke’ uit een idg. <i>*doreu̯ā</i>, dat te vergelijken is met lit. <i>dìrva</i> (< <i>*dṝ-u̯ā</i>) ‘akker’ eig. ‘wat losgemaakt is’, lett. <i>druva</i> ‘bezaaide akker’, oi. <i>dū́rvā́</i> (< <i>*dṝ-u̯ā</i>) ‘panicum dactylon’, gall. <i>dravoca</i> ‘dolik’ afl. van de idg. wt. <i>*der</i> ‘villen, splijten’ (IEW 209).</font></p>
<p style="margin-left:1em"><font size="2">Voor de <i>v</i> van mnl. <i>tarve</i>, <i>teerv</i> vgl. W. de Vries Ts 41, 1922, 190, die meent dat hier <i>teeru</i><i>tarwe</i> en <i>terwe</i> aangaat, merkt K. Heeroma, Holl. Dialect Studies 1935 bij kaart 20 en 30 op, dat vóór 1500 <i>tarwe</i> in Holland heerste, maar <i>terwe</i> in West-NBrabant; van Utrecht af oostwaarts kende men alleen het woord <b><i>weit</i></b>.
Dit laatste woord is nog gewoon in de Noordel. en Oostelijke provincies
tot aan Utrecht toe en in een streek langs de Maas; overigens heerst <i>tarwe</i>.
— De verdeling dezer woorden voor de 14de eeuw geeft de kaart van J. W.
Weevers, Taalatlas afl. 2, 3 aan, de moderne verdeling geeft kaart 4.</font> gelezen moet worden. — Wat de vormen </p></div>
<h3><font size="2"><a name="132198468e48ab85_1321982a4a56977c_fvw"></a>N. van Wijk (1936 [1912]), <i>Franck's Etymologisch woordenboek der Nederlandsche taal</i></font></h3>
<div><p><font size="2"><b>tarwe</b> znw., dial. <i>terwe</i> (met. <i>e</i> vóór <i>r</i> + labiaal, vgl. <i>berm</i>), mnl. <i>tar</i>(<i>e</i>)<i>we</i>, <i>-ve</i>, <i>teerv</i> v. Identiteit met eng. <i>tare</i> “onkruid, dolik, wikke” is mogelijk. Met ablaut lit. <i>dirvà</i> “akker, zaadveld”, oi. <i>dū́rvâ-</i> “panicum dactylon”; hierbij nog delphisch <i>darátā</i>, thessalisch <i>dáratos</i> “brood”? en russ. <i>deréwn'a</i> “dorp”, oud en dial. ook “veld”? Voor de alg.-germ. benaming der tarwe zie <i><b>weit</b></i>.</font></p>
</div>
<h3><font size="2"><a name="132198468e48ab85_1321982a4a56977c_vercoullie"></a>J. Vercoullie (1925), <i>Beknopt etymologisch woordenboek der Nederlandsche taal</i></font></h3>
<div><p><font size="2"><b>tarwe</b> <abbr title="vrouwelijk (femininum)">v.</abbr>, <abbr title="Middelnederlands (1200–1500)">Mnl.</abbr> <abbr title="idem (hetzelfde)">id.</abbr> en <i>taruwe +</i> <abbr title="Middelnederduits (1100–1500)">Mndd.</abbr> <i>tarwe</i> + <abbr title="Sanskrit">Skr.</abbr> <i>dūrvā</i> = panicum dactylon, <abbr title="Litouws">Lit.</abbr> <i>dirvà</i> = zaailand.</font><span id="q_13219978aa13c19f_1" class="h4"></span><br>
</p>
</div><div><div class="im"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><font size="2"></font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span lang="DE">From: </span>"Stellingwerfs Eigen" <<a href="mailto:info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl" target="_blank">info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl</a>><span lang="DE"><br>
Subject: </span>LL-L "Etymology"<span></span></font></p><font size="2"><br></font><div><font size="2">Dear Lowlanders,<br>Eng.: wheat; Deutsch: weizen; LS: weit; but in Dutch:
tarwe.<br>Q: Dat 'tarwe', waar komt dat etymologisch (of onlogisch?)
vandaan, en komt dat ergens anders ook voor bij Lowlanders?</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Should it perhaps come from Scottisch..;-)</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Piet Bult</font><br>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><br></div>
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