<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div><div><div><div style="text-align:center">=====================================================<br> L O W L A N D S - L - 02 September 2011 - Volume 02<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span><span style="color:#5b1094">Thurston</span> <span><a href="mailto:thurston.nicklas@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">thurston.nicklas@sbcglobal.net</a></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">Subject: <span>LL-L "Etymology" 2011.09.01 (02) [NL]</span><span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"> </p><div bgcolor="#ffffff">English has many pairs with the alternation rV > Vr ~ . For
example, Ger Ross, English horse, Ger brennen. English burn, Ger
brünlein, Scots burn. There are really very many examles of this. It
looks like a maritime Germanic feature, perhaps.<br>
<br>
Dale Nicklas<br><br>----------<br><br><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">From: Cliff Smuts <<a href="mailto:csmuts@xsinet.co.za" target="_blank">csmuts@xsinet.co.za</a>.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Subject: LL-L “Etymology”</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Beste Lowlanders/ Piet Bult</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Die r-verskuiwing kom redelik algemeen
voor, sover ek uit my stdueijare kan
onthou. Ek het nie veel kennis van Suid-Eur tale soos Italiaans/ Latyn, Spaans,
Portugees en Frans nie of ‘n Noord-Eur taal soos Deens nie, maar kan wel uit
die vuis aan ‘n paar voorbeelde in Nederlands (en sekerlik ook dialekte
van Nederlands) en Afrikaans dink vergeleke met wat die situasie in Engels is:</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Borsel – brush</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Bors – breast</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Ros horse</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Kors – crust</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Ook in die spreektaal maak mense gebruik
van die verskuiwing. Enkele voorbeelde in Afrikaans waaraan ek sommer so kan dink is truksvy in
plaas van turksvy (prickly pear) en kurk in plaas van kruk (crutch)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Groete.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Cliff Smuts<br><br>----------<br><br></span></font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span><span style="color:#c88900">Roland Desnerck</span> <span><a href="mailto:roland.desnerck@telenet.be" target="_blank">roland.desnerck@telenet.be</a></span></span><span><span></span></span></p>
Subject: <span>LL-L "Etymology" 2011.09.01 (02) [NL]<br><br></span>Beste allen,<div><br></div>Ben nu pas terug uit Kreta. Heerlijk
eiland en het Modern Grieks is een interessante taal. Wist niet dat zij
Frankrijk nog Gallia noemen...<br><div><br></div><div>Nu terzake. De genoemde verschuiving (metathesis) komt heel veel voor.</div><div>Enkele voorbeelden:</div><div><br></div><div>Frusch = vors, kikvors</div><div><br></div>
<div>Vriezen = vrost : vorst (West-Vlaams: vost)</div><div><br></div><div>Fris = vers (West-Vlaams: vasjhe)</div><div><br></div><div>Driede = derde (Frans-Vlaanderen: driede)</div><div><br></div><div>West-Vlaams:</div><div>
<br></div><div>Gras = gars (uitspraak: gas)</div><div>Fürchten: vruchten = frutn (vrezen, vluchyen)</div><div>Wrat = worte</div><div>Bulderen: burreln (vgl. brullen)</div><div>Branden = (in de middeleeuwen) barnen</div><div>
<br></div><div>Oostends:</div><div><br></div><div>arm = (West-Vlaams) oarme</div><div> = (Oostends) oamer</div><div><br></div><div>Groetjes uit Oostende en toetnoasteki!</div><div><br></div><div>Roland Desnerck</div><div>
Rogierlaan 25</div><div>8400 Oostende</div><div>West-Vlaanderen (België)<br><br>----------<br><br><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span><span style="color:#cc0060"><a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org" target="_blank">list@marcusbuck.org</a></span></span><span><span></span></span></p>
Subject: <span>LL-L "Etymology" 2011.09.01 (02) [NL]</span><br></div><br><div>From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" <<a href="mailto:info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl" target="_blank">info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl</a>><br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Beste Lowlanders,</blockquote><div><div><br></div></div>
Actually the opposite way round, Germanic loan words in the Romance languages, see: <<a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=fresh" target="_blank">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=fresh</a>>.<br>
<br>
The r-metathesis does occur in other languages too. Old English had
"fersc" but reverted to un-metathesed "fresh" later. Schiller-Lübben's
Middle Low German dictionary has both "versch" and "frisch". Middle Low
German was also the source of the Scandinavian words according to <<a href="http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/vers2" target="_blank">http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/vers2</a>> (of both "färsk" and "frisk" <<a href="http://runeberg.org/svetym/0245.html" target="_blank">http://runeberg.org/svetym/0245.html</a>>).<br>
<br>
I couldn't find any trace of "versch" in my modern German Low Saxon
dictionaries. They only know "frisch". Dutch Low Saxon seems to know
"fris" and the "Woordenboek van de Drentse dialecten" includes much more
references to "fris" than to "vars", but knows both. The "Morfologische
Atlas van de Nederlandse Dialecten" has data on "vers" and shows that
Groningen and some areas along the German border prefer "fris" over
"vers". To me this suggests that "vers/vars" emanates from Holland and
is supported by Dutch influence. (Although its entry in Schiller-Lübben
suggests that it cannot be seen solely as a Dutch loan.)<br>
<br>
And yes, r-metathesis occurs in other words too. For Dutch there are examples in <<a href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metathese_%28taalkunde%29" target="_blank">http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metathese_%28taalkunde%29</a>>, for Low Saxon in the corresponding Low Saxon article <<a href="http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metathees" target="_blank">http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metathees</a>>.<br>
<br>
In conclusion coexistance of words with metathesis and without
metathesis must have existed even before the Angles and Saxons went to
Britain (e.g. "-thorp/-dorp" vs. "-throp/-drup" in placenames).<br>
<br>
Marcus Buck<br><br>----------<br><br><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">From: <span><span style="color:#008391">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net" target="_blank">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a></span></span><span><span style="color:#cc0060"></span></span><span><span></span></span></p>
Subject: <span>LL-L "Etymology" 2011.09.01 (02) [NL]<br><br></span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D" lang="NL">Beste Piet, Ron </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D" lang="NL">Naar
aanleiding van NL ‘vers’: Nederlands kent beide vormen. Deze ‘verse’
vis ruikt niet zo ‘fris’. Is dat nog weer een bewijs dat Nederlands een
samenraapseltje is van Noordelijke en Zuidelijke dialecten?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D" lang="NL">Prettig weekeinde,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D" lang="NL">Jacqueline BdJ</span></p>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D" lang="NL">Seattle USA</span><br><br><div>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>Please consider the following:<br><br>German: 3: drei 13: dreizehn 30: dreißig<br><br>English: 3: three 13: thirteen 30: thirty<br><br>W. Frisian: 3: trije 13: trettjien 30: trittich<br><br>Low Saxon (Germany) 3: dree 13: dorteihn ~ dörteihn ~ darteihn 30: dortig ~ dörtig ~ dartig ~ drottig<br>
<br>Limburgish: 3: drie 13: <font size="2">darteen</font> 30: <font size="2">dartig</font><br><br> <div id="gt-res-content" class="almost_half_cell"><div dir="ltr" style="zoom:1">Dutch: <span id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="nl"><span class="hps">3</span><span class="">: drie</span> <span class="hps">13</span><span class="">:</span> <span class="hps">dertien</span> <span class="hps">30:</span> <span class="hps">dertig<br>
</span></span></div></div><br>Afrikaans: <span id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="nl"><span class="hps">3</span><span class="">: drie</span> <span class="hps">13</span><span class="">:</span> <span class="hps">dertien</span> <span class="hps">30:</span> <span class="hps">dertig<br>
</span></span><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br>
<br>
----------<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">From: </span></font>"Stellingwerfs Eigen" <<a href="mailto:info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl" target="_blank">info@stellingwerfs-eigen.nl</a>></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Subject: </span></font>LL-L "Etymology"</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<div>Dear Ron,</div>
<div>Danke veur de anvulling, mar waor ik meer op doele was dat et mi'j opvul
dat veural de taelen om oons (Ned.) henne - en lichtkaans nog uut de oorlog mit
Spanje - allemaole de 'fr???' vorm hebben en dat et Nederlaanse 'vers' en in et
Frysk 'farsk' (de twiede letter mit opzet(?) niet as de 'r' anneumen het. Et
leek mi'j meer veur de haand te liggen dat et in et Nederlaans - rond 1600 -
bi'jglieks 'vres' en 'frask' wodden was en gien 'vers' en 'farsk'.</div>
<div>Mit een vrundelike groet en een mooi weekaende toeweenskt uut
Stellingwarf,</div>
<div>Piet Bult<br>
</div>
</div><br></div>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br>
</p><div style="text-align:center">
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