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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"> </font></p>From:<span> </span><span class="gI"><span class="gD">Ed Alexander</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:edsells@cogeco.ca">edsells@cogeco.ca</a></span></span>
<div>Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Semantics" 2011.11.17 (03) [EN-FY]</span><br><br><div class="im">
At 03:31 PM 17/11/2011, Ron
wrote:<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<ol><li><font size="2">American English uses "dear" only in the
first-mentioned sense, with idiomatic exceptions (i.e., supposedly
archaisms) such as "to pay a dear price" or "to pay
dearly."</font></li></ol></blockquote></blockquote>
<br></div>
My wife and I do not agree. First of all, I suspect that the common
root meaning is "rare". Secondly, it is only to be
expected in the creolization of English, that items that were
"costly" would have been more affordable to the upper classes
which of course use far more words of French derivation (such as
"expensive"). Of course, since "expensive" is
far more common, people who have learned English as a second language are
far less likely to know this meaning. Also, I do not understand why
you would say that "pay dearly" is idomatic, as opposed to a
situation where "expensive" would be inappropriate. I
think that we have not yet replaced the word "dear" with
another in cases where the cost is not financial. Of course, the
Anglo-Saxon speaking lower classes were more likely to have to "pay
dearly with their lives" in the time of
war.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<ol><li><font size="2">Non-American English, at least many varieties of it,
uses "dear" in both senses. Thus, for instance, in Australian
English you may say something like "Computers are very
expensive" and "Computers are very dear." The latter
sounds strange to most American.</font></li></ol></blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
I'm an American and I don't find it strange, just infrequent.
<br><br>
Ed Alexander, Ontario<br>
<br>----------<br><br>From:<span></span><span class="gD"> Hellinckx Luc</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a></span><div class="iw"> </div>Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Semantics"</span><br>
<br>Beste Ron,<div><br></div><div>You wrote:</div><div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><font><font size="2">I've
long been intrigued by the semantic development of the word complex
"dear" within the Germanic languages, and I wonder if you have any
information to add.</font><br>
<br><font size="2">"Dear" and its relatives can mean the following:</font><br></font><ol><li><font size="2">highly valued (dear to one's heart)</font></li><li><font size="2">expensive (having a high price)<br>
</font></li></ol><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">Clearly, the common denominator is "valuable" or "valued."<br>
<br>In the English-speaking world there appears to be a split: <br></font><ol><li><font size="2">American
English uses "dear" only in the first-mentioned sense, with idiomatic
exceptions (i.e., supposedly archaisms) such as "to pay a dear price" or
"to pay dearly."<br>
</font></li><li><font size="2">Non-American English, at least many
varieties of it, uses "dear" in both senses. Thus, for instance, in
Australian English you may say something like "Computers are very
expensive" and "Computers are very dear." The latter sounds strange to
most American.<br></font></li></ol></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Brabantish
knows "duur/dier" exclusively as a word meaning "expensive"
(geographical distribution roughly follows the pattern of vier/vuur ~
fire/Feuer). Not as a word meaning something like "caro" in Italian. By
the way, "dierbaar" is totally "school language", it's no part
whatsoever of the vernacular. More in general, any word having the
suffix "baar" is not a traditional Brabantish word, it's a germanism.</div><div><br></div><div>Could
it be that the literal meaning of "dear" already got pushed away by
"expensive" in English during Anglo-Norman times? In uptown language
that is...in lower echelons the original meaning may have been preserved
longer.</div><div><br></div><div>"Dear", as in "Dear Henry", has no
cognate in Brabantish. "Lieve" is predominantly used when an amorous
relationship exists between the two (contrasting with Saxon I believe).
On a general level, as far as I know, only "Beste ..." will do.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind greetings,</div><div><br></div><div>Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium<br><br>----------<br><br><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;">
From:
R. F. Hahn <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></p>
Subject: Semantics<br><br>Thanks, everyone.<br><br>Here's something for you to sink your teeth into:<br><br>In Scots, <i>lief</i> [li(ː)f] ~ [li(ː)v...] means 'dear', 'beloved', thus corresponding to what in Dutch is <i>lief</i> [li(ː)f] ~ [li(ː)v...] and in Low Saxon is <i>leef</i> ... [lɛɪf] ~ [lɛɪv...] ~ [laɪf] ~ [laɪv...].<br>
<br>Dutch ("Flemish") influence in Scotland?<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br><br>----------<br><br><big>From: Hannelore Hinz <a href="mailto:hannehinz@t-online.de" target="_blank"><hannehinz@t-online.de></a><br>
Subject: LL-L "Semantics" 2011.11.15 (03) [EN]<br>
<br>
Hallo "dear" Lowlanners.<br>
<br>
Vörweg hier ein Riemel von Gerda Uhthoff 2.8.1896-21.10.1988<br>
(Wi kennten uns.)<br>
<br>
<b>PLANT' HELLE BLAUMEN<br>
</b><br>
Glück in de Leiw, dat singt von sülben, -<br>
wenn't Hart tau vull is, juucht de Mund,<br>
man trurig Leiw swiggt in sik rinner,<br>
ward nachtens blot in Tranen kund.<br>
<br>
Dor möten anner denn von singen,<br>
de Dichterslüüd, dat olle Leed<br>
von de verlaten Leiw up Ierden,<br>
de düster Blaum in't bunte Beet.<br>
<br>
Plant' helle Blaumen in den Goren<br>
all von jug Leiw, wenn't jichtens geiht,<br>
de düstern maken trurig Harten; -<br>
wo schöön is't doch, wenn'n Glück utseiht*! * aussäen<br>
<br>
<b>leif, </b>-ee-, flekt. -<i>w</i> Adj. und Adv, lieb<br>
<b>1. </b>erfreulich, angenehm: 'Dat sy ju allen lef edder leyt'
Re. Osterspiele; 'it wer ock dem Rade leff edder leit' (Rostock;
dem Lebensmüden <i>is 't </i>(das Sterben) <i>eenen Dag so leef
as den annern; dat Leiwst un dat Best updragen </i>zur
Mahlzeit; adverbial gern: <i>wo leif sei dat nehm! </i>(1887)HARed;
<i>moegen Sei dat nich so lif liden? (1889) </i>SCHÖ/Schlagsd.;
bes. wie hd. für fehlende Steigerung von gern im Kompar. und
Superl.: 'Kumpt hir jemant here varen, Deme wil ik alzo möten; He
mochte sik lever laten des kynkhostes böten' Red. Ost.; 'He wolde
lever syn, dar ein Nachmeisters Knecht Ein Span vul dünne Supp
(Jauche) up sinen L<small>AUR</small> (Johann Lauremberg); <i>he
süht eenen lever sinken as fleeten </i>(schwimmen); <i>hei
süht ein leiwer gahn as kamen; leiwer tweimal mit Gemack as
einmal mit gebrack </i>vom geladenen Wagen (1887); <i>leiwer
ahn Abendbrot tau Bedd' gahn as mit Schulden upstahn; leewer 'n
Magen verrenken as 'n Wirt wat schenken.<br>
</i><b>2. </b>im Sinne der Neigung bes. zum andern Geschlecht; so
<i>leif hebben </i>lieben; 'nademe . . . de Welt . . . dat ere
Leeff hefft'; <i>de Uhl heft eer Uelhken so leev, aß de Duve er
Düveken; wenn . . . Nahwers Kinner sick leiw hewwen </i>F.Reut;<br>
<i>leef hebben </i>küssen; so auch in der Wechselrede von Mutter
und Tochter: <i>Herrjemine, wat deit he di? Hett he di ok leef?
Wat wull he nich, wat schull he nich! Wenn 't dor man noch bi
blew! HA/Red; </i><b>ironisch</b>: <i>he is 'n Soehn, oewer ok
'n leewen! - seem. sick leewen Mann maken (</i>sich beliebt
..Huh, Programm abgestürzt.., gerettet) also (sich beliebt machen,
sich einschmeicheln beim Kapitän); <b>substantivisch </b>in der
Anrede: <i>min Leiwen</i>; im Sprw.: <i>dei wat Leiws hett, dei
geiht 'e nah, un de wat Scheiws hett, de smitt ' e nah; </i>im
<b>Superlativ:<br>
</b><i>Leiwste </i>Liebste; <b>formelhaft </b>häufig als
Attribut bei Substantiven mannigfacher Art wie: <i>dei leiw Gott,
dat leiw Brot, dat leiw Veih, dei leiw Sünn, dei leiw' Ierd',
dei leiwe Lust, männigein leiwen Dag, dei leiwe lange Nacht; </i>oft
<b>verhüllend</b>: <i>dat leiwe </i>(kümmerliche bißchen) <i>Läben;
dat leiw Wäder </i>(Unwetter, Gewitter); <i>min leiwe </i>(große)
<i>Not; vör luter leiwe </i>(großer) <i>Angst; dat leiwe </i>(schlimme)
<i>Kuurnköpen; dat leiw </i>(böse) <i>Leiden; so väl leiwe </i>(harte)
<i>Släg'; </i>Als<b> Ausruf des Bedauerns oder der Verwunderung:
</b><i>du leiwe Tit.<br>
</i><b>3. </b>Dim.: 'min Lefken' (mein Liebchen; ebenso im
Tanzlied <i>Gos up de Däl: mit min Leewken. </i><b>Im
Tiergespräch: </b><i>Herrjes', min Leefken! </i><b>auch hd.:
</b>für die Sonne <i>seggen weck Klärchen, weck Liebchen; </i><b>Koseform</b>:
Leiwing.<br>
Zss.: <i>hart-, unleif; förleif. </i>Mnd. <i>lêf.<br>
</i>Lit.: Wossidlo/Teuchert<br>
<b> </b><i><b> <br>
</b></i>Noch 'n Riemel von Gerda Uhthoff:<br>
<br>
<b> LÄWENSLANG</b><br>
<br>
<big><small>Verlaten Leiw, de glööwt,<br>
dat all's sik wedder wend',<br>
<br>
verlaten Leiw, de tööwt un tööwt,<br>
dat all's in'n Gauden end'. -<br>
<br>
Un seggst du, dat s' nich glöwen sall,<br>
denn kickt s' di an so bang,<br>
<br>
un seggst du, dat s' nich töwen sall,<br>
denn flustert s': "Läwenslang."<br>
<br>
So, dat wier mal <i>dit </i>un <i>dat </i>von leiw/leew <b>Leiw/Leew</b><br>
<br>
Un mien Gräuten is ok <i>leiw </i>meint.<br>
<br>
Hanne</small></big></big><br></div></div></div></div>
<br>
</div></div>
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