<div style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font>==============================</font><font>=======================<br> L O W L A N D S - L - 29 February 2012 - Volume 02<br><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
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<p style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="MsoNormal"><font> </font></p>
<font>From: <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gI"><span class="gD">Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a></span></span><br>
Subject: <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (01) [EN]</span></font><br><big style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></big><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hoezo?-Hoe zo?-Wieso?-How so? TRICKY! Ron gets himself into a linguistic wasps nest.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">In
my Dutch dictionary “Van Dale Groot Woordenboek der Nederlandse taal
1976” it does not show up either as hoezo? or hoe zo? In my
German-Dutch dictionary (Kramers Woordenboek D/N N /D 1996) I find D to N
Wieso? - Hoezo? And N to D Hoe’zo? - Wieso? </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">So the question presents itself:- Is this maybe a Dutch loan from English How So?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">There is/was? even an informative radio program called Hoe? Zo! </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">In
the case of Afr. ‘Hoekom’. It may indeed be an English calque, but in
Dutch you can say:- Hoe komt het dat……..? and that has exactly the same
meaning as English ‘How come?’ </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Concerning
the difference between ‘Waarom’ en Hoezo’ There is indeed a difference.
I would use ‘Waarom’ to ask for a precedent, but ‘Hoezo’ for the reason
of that precedent – a more intellectual inquiry.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jacqueline BdJ</span></p>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Seattle US </span><br><big style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">----------</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font></big><font>From: <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Henry Pijffers <<a href="mailto:henry.pijffers@gmail.com">henry.pijffers@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ron wrote:</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
></span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
></span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
> Am I correct in assuming that Afrikaans hoekom is a calque (i.e. loan translation from English?</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
></span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
I wouldn't say it is. In Dutch one can say "Hoe komt dat?", just like</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
in Low Saxon one says "wu kümp dät?". Leave off the dat/dät and you're</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
almost there.</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
cheers,</span></font>
<font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Henry</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">----------</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:roerd096@PLANET.NL">roerd096@PLANET.NL</a>></span><br>
Subject: <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2012.02.29 (01) [EN]<br><br></span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Interesting that you mention this, Ron.</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Next to Dutch "waarom" and "hoezo", "waarvoor" is used for why as well.</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
"Waarom" is most often seen as the correct Standard Dutch form, "waarvoor" and "hoezo" as wrong, vulgar, dialectical.</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
"Waarvoor sla je me?" is considered incorrect, which should be "waarom sla je me?" (why do you hit me?).</span></font>
<font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
The last few years, one can hear "hoezo" instead of "waarom" very often: "hoezo sla je me?"</span></font>
<font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
To me this use of hoezo sounds quite childish, maybe because children and teenagers especially use it.</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Btw: Afrikaans "hoekom" doesn't exist in Dutch, but we'd say "hoe komt het dat...", "hoe komt ..."</span></font>
<font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
hoe komt het dat jouw haar zo nat is? = how come your hair is so wet? or</span></font>
<font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
hoe komt jouw haar zo nat? = what made your hair so wet?</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Ingmar</span></font>
<font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font><div style="margin-left:40px"><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">From: R. F. Hahn <[log in to unmask]></span></span></font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div>
<div style="margin-left:40px"><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">Subject: Etymology</span></span></font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)"><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">
Dear Lowlanders,</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
In Dutch, the most basic adverbs expressing the idea of "why" are waarom
and hoezo (= "how so"), while in Afrikaans they are waarom and hoekom
(= "how come"). Do competent speakers perceive them as being
semantically different?</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Am I correct in assuming that Afrikaans hoekom is a calque (i.e. loan translation from English?</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Low Saxon of Germany has waarüm ~ worüm [vo(ʊ̯)ˈrʏˑm], woso
[vo(ʊ̯)ˈzoʊ̯] (= "how so"), woför [vo(ʊ̯)ˈfœɐ] (= "what for"?), and
waarvon ~ wovon ~ wovun [vo(ʊ̯)ˈfɔˑn] ~ [vo(ʊ̯)ˈfʊˑn] (= "what from").</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
It seems that words for "why" used to distinguish between at least the following ideas:</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><ul style="color:rgb(0,0,153);margin-left:40px"><li><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
"as a result of what (past) cause" (past)</span></font>
</li><li><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
"for what reason" (present-future)</span></font></li><li><font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
"for what purpose/benefit" (future)</span></font></li></ul><div style="margin-left:40px"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
As semantic awareness of the differences disappeared, generally applicable ones came into more common use (e.g. English "why").</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
For example, default "why" in the following languages seem to have
originally conveyed the sense of "for what (purpose/benefit"): Yiddish
פֿֿארװאָס (farvos), Catalan per què, Castilian por qué, Portuguese por
que, French pourquoi, Italian perché, Hebrew לַמָה (lamāh), Arabic limā ~
limāđā ~ lima (لِمَا . لِمَاذَا . لِمَ).</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Any thoughts or insight, anyone?</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Regards,</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153)">
</span><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Reinhard/Ron</span></font><br style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="2"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Seattle, USA</span></font><br></div><span class="gI"><br></span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<br><span></span></div>
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