<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="text-align:center"><font>==============================</font><font>=======================<br> L O W L A N D S - L - 27 April 2012 - Volume 01<br>
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
</font><font>
- <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>
Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank">lowlands-l.net/codes.php</a><br>
==============================</font><font>=======================</font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font> </font></p><font>From: <span><span></span></span></font><span class="gI"><span class="gD">Mike Morgan</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a></span></span><font><br>
Subject: <span></span></font><span class="gI">LL-L "Etymology" 2012.04.26 (05) [EN]<br><br></span><span><span>Steven Hanson</span> <span><a href="mailto:ammurit@gmail.com" target="_blank">ammurit@gmail.com</a></span></span><font><span><span></span><span></span></span> asked:</font><div class="im">
<br>
> So, the retention of the –en might be considered<br>>something of a relic?<br><br></div>Ron/R replied:<br><span>> I[t] may be, Steven</span>. But I'm not ready to bet all my<div class="im"><br>> money on it.<br>
> What do others think?<br><br></div>My money is also staying in my
pocket. I am (was?) an Indo-Europeanist rather than a Germanist, and as
such anythign claimed to be a Germanic <u>relic/retention</u> must be retained from an earlier state (e.g. Indo-European.. or at least Proto-Germanic). However,<br>
<br>(1) infinitive suffixes are one of the the buggabears of IE... there
is no one reconstructable form, but rather a (largish!) number of them,
with the majority(?) containing a dental stop of some sort, but NOT a
nasal<br>
<br>(2) (present) participles DO have a dental nasal (plus a stop), and
it is possible (but not necessary) that the Germanic infinitive in <u><b>-en</b></u> come from such a participle (remembering that one of the OE infinitives -- the <u><b>to [Verb]nne</b></u> infinitive -- would be such a case)<br>
<br>(3) there are quite a number of OTHER non-finite forms reconstructable for IE, and the nasal-less -<u><b>e</b></u> forms may be from another course)<br><br><u><b>-e</b></u> infinitive MAY be a "reduction" from <u><b>-en</b></u> (with nasal loss) -- HOWEVER, it may ALSO be the case that <b><u>-e</u></b> is the older, and that <u><b>-n</b></u>
is a (newer?) Germanic innovative suffix. We really cannot say unless
we can reconstruct/trace where the two forms (could potentially) come
from.<br>
<i><br></i>mwm || <u>U</u> C > || mike || мика || माईक || マイク || மாய்க் (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)<br>sign language linguist / linguistic typologist<br>academic adviser to "Nepal Sign Language Training and Research Centre" project<br>
NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal<br><font></font><br><font>
----------<br>
<br>
</font><span>From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span>></span><br>
<span>
Subject: Etymology<br>
<br>
Thanks, Mike.<br><br>But ... supposed <i>-en > -e</i> is not limited to the infinitive suffixes, if you consider constructions such as <i>wir machen</i> ~ <i>mir mache</i>, and <i>Fraue(n)</i>.<br><br>I wonder if > <i>-e</i> is a largely Frankish feature, since it is present in practically all Frankish dialects, from Low to High. Because of historical Frankish power it could have spread from there. It is definitely very un-Saxon. The only Low Saxon dialects that have this feature are some in the far east where they rubbed shoulders with transplanted Frankish ones among Medieval migrants.<br>
<br>Note also that Eastern Yiddish is of the <i>-en</i> type. Generally speaking, its Medieval roots are in an area around the Middle Rhine, which is predominantly Ripuarian speaking, and today's Ripuarian dialects are of the <i>-e</i> type.</span><i><br>
<font><br>
</font></i><font>Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</font><i><font><br>
<span></span></font></i>
<div style="text-align:center"><font>
==============================</font><font>===========================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br><a href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
</font><font>
or <a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a><br><a href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank">http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</a>
</font><font>.<br><a href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</a>
</font><font><br>
==============================</font><font>============================ </font></div></div>