<div style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font>==============================</font><font>=======================<br> L O W L A N D S - L - 27 July 2012 - Volume 02<br>
<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>lowlands.list@gmail.com</span></a>
</font><font>
- <a rel="nofollow" href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span>http://lowlands-l.net/</span></a><br>
Posting: <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span>lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a><br>
Archive: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</span></a><br>
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)<br>
Language Codes: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php" target="_blank"><span>lowlands-l.net/codes.php</span></a><br>
==============================</font><font>=======================
</font><font><br></font></div>
<div style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-align:left"><font><br></font></p><div style="text-align:left">From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:roerd096@PLANET.NL">roerd096@PLANET.NL</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.27 (01) [EN]<br>
<br>Interesting, but strange that this article thinks the language of Wilamow to be Dutch/Flemish, since it's so obviously German...<br>
The only real Dutch in Germany is the Kleverländisch, but that is spoken
in the border region between the Netherlands and Germany, in both
countries.<br>
A few examples (from the German Wikipedia):<br>
<br>
„Ek heb noch efkes afgewaachd, ob dat, wach’e min seggen wold.“<br>
„Ich habe noch kurz abgewartet, was Du mir sagen wolltest.“<br>
(Ndl.) „Ik heb nog even gewacht op wat je me zeggen wou.“<br>
„En den Wenter stüwe di drööge Bläär dörr de locht eröm“ (Georg Wenker Satz 1)<br>
„Im Winter fliegen die trockenen Blätter in der Luft herum.“<br>
(Ndl.) „In de winter stoven de droge bladeren door de lucht.“<br>
„Et sall soon üttschaije te shnejje, dann werd et wäär wer bäter.“ (Wenker Satz 2)<br>
„Es hört gleich auf zu schneien, dann wird das Wetter wieder besser.“<br>
(Ndl.) „Het zal zo ophouden met sneeuwen, dan wordt het weer weer beter.“<br>
„Hej es vörr vier of säss wääke gestörwe.“ (Wenker Satz 5)<br>
„Er ist vor vier oder sechs Wochen gestorben.“<br>
(Ndl.) „Hij is vier of zes weken geleden gestorven“<br>
„Het füür was te hätt, die kuuke sinn ja an de onderkant heel schwaort angeschröt.“ (Wenker Satz 6)<br>
„Das Feuer war zu heiß, die Kuchen sind ja unten ganz schwarz gebrannt.“<br>
(Ndl.) „Het vuur was te heet, de koeken zijn aan de onderkant helemaal zwart aangebrand.“<br>
„Hej dütt die eikes ömmer sonder salt än pääper ääte.“ (Wenker Satz 7)<br>
„Er isst die Eier immer ohne Salz und Pfeffer.“<br>
(Ndl.) „Hij eet de eitjes altijd zonder zout en peper.“<br>
<br>
Ingmar Roerdinkholder<br>
<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
From: Roger Thijs [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: LL-L Language survival<br><br>
De Standaard of today has an article over 2 pages about what people think is a Dutch language island in Polen.<br>
To me the language rather looks like an archaic "early" middle-German.<br><br>
An outprint of the 2 pages is attached.<br><br>
Regards,<br>
Roger<br><br>
----------<br><br>
From: R. F. Hahn <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Language varieties<br><br>
Thanks, Roger!<br><br>
Vilamovian is clearly a (High) German dialect and shares characteristics with other Silesian German dialects.<br><br>
For example, Appel (instead of Standard German Apfel 'apple') is common in Central German varieties (including Yiddish).<br><br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA<br></blockquote>
<br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Language varieties<br>
<br>
Thanks, Ingmar!<br>
<br>
I share your wonderment over why they would consider the German variety of Wilamow a type of Dutch. My guess is that it's simply case of ignorance. ("Oh, look! They say <i>appel</i> like we do in Dutch, and that in Poland!")<br>
<br>Of course, Wilamow is not in Germany but in a formerly German-controlled part of what is now Poland. And here is where ignorance may come into it too. ("Oh, look! They speak like that in <b>Poland</b>!" <b>Lots </b>of German and Low Saxon varieties are or used to be used in what is now Poland, and many, if not most of them, say <i>Appel</i>.)<br>
<br>I'm not totally sure I agree that Cleves Low Frankish (Low Franconian) is a dialect of Dutch. At least within our <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary">Anniversary presentation</a> I let it be its own group (<a href="http://owlands-l.net/anniversary/kleverlands-info.php">http://owlands-l.net/anniversary/kleverlands-info.php</a>), with member varieties on both sides of the NL-DE border: <br>
<br><ul><li>.<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-venlo.php">lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-venlo.php</a> <br></li><li><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim.php</a></li>
<li><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim-saarn.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim-saarn.php</a></li><li><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-berjisch.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-berjisch.php</a></li>
<li><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kuuks.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kuuks.php</a></li><li><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/liemers.php">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/liemers.php</a><br>
</li></ul>
<br>What do you think?<br><br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA<br>
</div>
<font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><span lang="en"><span></span></span></font>
<div style="text-align:left">
</div><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">
==============================</font><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">===========================<br>
Send posting submissions to <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>.<br>
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
</font><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><br>
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to<br><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><span>listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org</span></a>
</font><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">
or <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a><br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target="_blank"><span>http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</span></a>
</font><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">.<br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/group.php?gid=118916521473498" target="_blank"><span>http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498</span></a>
</font><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><br>
==============================
</font><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">============================ </font></div>