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<font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">From:</font><font><span name="Mike Morgan"> </span>Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:roerd096@PLANET.NL">roerd096@PLANET.NL</a>><span><span><a href="mailto:kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net" target="_blank"></a></span></span></font><div>
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Subject: </font><font>LL-L "History" 2012.08.14 (04) [EN]</font><font><span><br><br></span>Yes, our colonial history brought a lot of exotic people to the
Netherlands. The Javanese Surinamese for instance, but many more came
directly from the former Dutch East Indies, I think between 5 and 10 %
of the Dutch has an Indonesian our mixed Dutch-Indonesian background.
There's also a big group from the Moluccas here, who have already
Melanesian influences, and also Papuas from New Guinea, which was Dutch
until 1964. And a lot of Chinese from Indonesia as well. The Javanese
Surinamese are Muslims, most of the others are Christians, although
most inhabitants of Indonesia are Muslims. The Javanese speak Javanese,
Dutch or Sranan Tongo (Surinamese creole), the "Indos" usually Dutch and
some Malay, the Moluccans have their own form of Malay. The Chinese
speak Dutch.<br>
An even bigger group of immigrants from Suriname in the Netherlands are
the so-called Hindostanen, recruited originally from former British
India in the same way as the Javanese.<br>
But for the average Dutchman, a typical Surinamer is still a black
Creole descendant from African slaves, speaking Sranan Tongo. There are
also the so-call Bush Negroes who really live more or less as their
African ancestors, speaking their own English or Portuguese based
creoles like Ndjuka and Saramaccan. The Surinamese creoles are the most
original and interesting of the creole languages, their European origins
are hardly recognizable.<br><br>
Btw as Ron wrote about the Javanese surname of Ramoni Kromowidjojo: it was earlier Kråmåwidjåjå.</font>
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The darkening from long a into an o like sound must be kind of a
universal trend: we see it very strongly in Low Saxon, Persian (Farsi)
and Javanese. Also in Somalian I think, because I know many Somalian
girls whose name ends in -o where Arabic has -a: Hibo, Halimo, Fadumo
etc.<br><br>
Ingmar</font>
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From: Kevin & Cheryl Caldwell <a href="mailto:kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net">kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net</a><br>
Subject: Sports and Culture<br><br>
I learned something interesting by way of the recent Olympic Games. One
of the top female swimmers in the world is from the Netherlands – her
name is Ranomi Kromowidjojo. That name didn’t sound particularly Dutch
to me (to be honest, her surname looks a little Slavic to me, but
apparently that was a red herring), so I did a little internet research
and discovered that she is of mixed Dutch-Javanese Surinamese origin,
but born and raised entirely in the Netherlands. There’s some
interesting history there that I wasn’t aware of before – Javanese
workers were recruited in the late 19th century to work on plantations
in Suriname. A lot of their descendants moved to the Netherlands in the
1970s.<br><br>
Kevin Caldwell<br><br>
Laurel, MD USA<br><br>
----------<br><br>
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: History<br><br>
Hi, Kev,<br><br>
Kromowidjojo (> Modern Spelling Kromowijoyo < earlier Kråmåwidjåjå) is a "very Javanese" name.<br><br>
Javanese used to be predominant in about three fourth of the Isle of
Java's eastern part and is still a vibrant language there. Sundanese
covered most of the western part of the island, with the exception of
Batavia, today's Jakarta. (These are parts of our world and humanity I
hold in particularly high esteem.) "Malay" varieties have been
dominating the Batavia area, today's Jakarta area, for quite some time,
and --- simply speaking -- .this is how the official language of
Indonesia became Bahasa Indonesia ("language of Indonesia"), a subset of
the Malay language.<br><br>
More information:<br>
Malay: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/malay-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/malay-info.php</a><br>
Baba Malay: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/baba-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/baba-info.php</a><br>
Malay (general): <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian-info.php</a><br>
Malay (Indonesian) 1: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian.php</a><br>
Malay (Indonesian) 2: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian.php</a><br>
Malay (Indonesian) 3:<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian.ph" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/indonesian.ph</a><br>
Sundanese: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/sunda-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/sunda-info.php</a><br>
Javanese: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/bali-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/bali-info.php</a><br>
Balinese: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/bali-info.php" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/bali-info.php</a><br><br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA<br></font></blockquote>
<font><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: History<br><br>Thank you, dear Ingmar, for adding this important historical information for everyone! <br><br>It is imperative that all of us Lowlanders understand and reconcile with these phases of history. In my (longish) life all over the world I've been forced to deal with it on the basis of general North European (including British, Dutch, Belgian, German and Danish) colonialism. <br>
<br>It is not a matter of which colonizing nation is more guilty than the next. It's a matter of never doing it again. (Sorry! I'm now stepping down from the pulpit.)<br><br>On the bright side, even these dire situations of colonial injustice have spurned incredibly beautiful beginnings, culturally and linguistically ... and ... and ... <br>
<br>I would <b>love</b> for us to talk more about that.<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA<br><br></font><font><span></span></font></div>
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